ELA

Yes Larryllix a real fraidy cap I thought you might find this of some interest given I recall that you had installed a lot of LED strips like the ones this supply powered.

Thanks for your compliment IndyMike, It took a couple of days to understand that the issue was mostly only happening in the evening. I was then able to concentrate on only those items that were on only at night or early morning. The supply is switched on and off by an Insteon Switchlinc each evening and thus was isolated from the network most of the time. I am very fortunate to have good Insteon troubleshooting tools such as an Oscilloscope, CP000, 9Khz high pass filter and the ELAMontor. Having such tools makes things a little easier to find. I was able to monitor the line, observe the noise, and then turn off items one at a time while monitoring the line. I was initially monitoring from a location roughly 60 ft away (electrically) from the offender and could still see 1 vp-p at that location. This high level of noise was able to penetrate deep into the network. The noise being such a large amplitude also made it easier to montitor. I recall trying to track down minor noise makers, with levels close to the background noise floor, and that makes things more difficult. Hi Brian ... thanks for your input. In my case the first harmonic is likely the main offender and it is at ~120kHz. The two captures in the original post were reduced in size to post them side by side. Those were using the CP000 coupler which attenuates the fundamental. The highest peak in those is the 120kHz harmonic. Below is a full size capture for easier viewing taken using the 9Khz high pass filter. That filter allows one to see the fundamental and upper harmonics without attenuation.

Posting this mainly for those interested in the details of diagnosing a severe Noise Generator. Had my entire Insteon Network begin failing for several nights in a row. After a power cycle in the morning everything was good again. Initially thought it was consistent with intermittent failure mode of the PLM. My PLM was from 2015 so seemed likely. After several hours of testing I came to understand it was a SuperNight CT-1250 switching power supply generating high levels of noise in the Insteon freq. range. This supply powered several SuperNight LED strips that have been in service since 2017. The power supply still powered its LED loads without fail outputting ~12V @ 3-4amps. However it was now also emitting a very large level of noise into the power lines. The noise level was so bad (SuperBad) that it completely killed all Insteon comms involving the PLM. I took the time to investigate and document in some detail since I had never encountered such a severe noise issue before. The vast majority of issues I had encountered were "signal sucker" issues that affected limited parts of the network but never the entire network. I also encountered a few minor noise generators, which only affected one, or a few devices in the network. Never would I have imagined a noise level this severe. Below are a couple of O’scope captures showing the old defective supply as compared to a new replacement supply (ALITOV ALT-1206) that was to be installed. Noise levels were captured using a CP000 coupler to isolate the 60Hz components. The levels are “worst case” as measured on a test bench directly at the power supplies power plug. It can be seen that the new supplies noise level is much, much better (old supply was failing). I still had a slight concern that the new supplies noise level is not exactly stellar. I imagine the old supplies noise level was probably similar when new so it should be ok. If needed I would add a filter later. After installing the new supply I tested the noise levels at an outlet near the PLM. They were very much attenuated ( lost in background noise level). The outlet is located over about 25ft. away from the supply. Comms testing to devices closest to the new supply show 3 hops, 3 remaining consistently. After removing the old supply I opened it up and found that the main 100uf (400V) electrolytic cap. was bulged and no longer working.

The filter discussion was primarily for the OP -Richtimpa. He stated the communications issue was important to him. Flickering or strobing could possibly be improved with the appropriate filter at the Power Wall. For Flickering - As a first attempt I would try the Jasco LED bypass that I referred to in my first page post. Have you tried those? They are mounted directly at each Dimmer or its load. They can be a big help in some cases but not all. Unfortunately they are showing out of stock presently. They are most helpful when the dimmer is lightly loaded with an LED load. A dimmer is susceptible to having its triac triggering upset when there is "noise" or " a "zero-cross waveform distortion" occurring with a minimal LED load. The Jasco device turns on only near the zero-cross point in the waveform to provide a more stable load for the dimmer triggering circuit, - at a time when the LED load is not yet conducting much current.

EMI filter vs Insteon: While in general, adding an EMI filter at the service entrance may be good for protecting electronics, it may be a negative for Insteon communications. Often times Insteon users with communications issues complain about "Noise" when the real issue is often that a device is a "signal sucker". Often times it is not all that important to understand which of those two that the offending device is. Adding an Insteon Filterlinc can be the solution for either. The Filterlinc both filters Noise from the line side and can also "isolate" a signal sucker from the line. With a large current device like the Power Wall it is much more important to attempt to understand whether it is a noise issue, a signal sucker issue or both. From the descriptions written here thus far it does sound like it may be a little of both. It is important to be clear on the terms Surge Suppressor vs. EMI filter. There are lots of Surge Suppressor -only devices that can be added without affecting Insteon communications. However there are a lot of EMI filters, especially those with a simple capacitor only filter, that will degrade Insteon comms. If Insteon offered a Filterlinc with large enough current capability that could be a solution. Since they do not, finding a custom EMI filter that that both suppresses noise from the line, but also isolates the load side may be difficult to identify and expensive. The M2120 mentioned does not provide enough data as to what the EMI portion of it consists of. Many inexpensive EMI filters are simply a capacitor. The capacitor alone suppresses a wide range of frequencies, usually including the Insteon freq. That makes it a "signal sucker" to insteon. So adding an EMI filter at the service may actually degrade the Insteon performance unless it is one that also incorporates large inductors to isolate the load side from the capacitance. The Power Wall vs Insteon issue is much more difficult due to the high currents involved. An Insteon user can buy a filterlinc and install it as a fix without incurring a large expense. If it does not work they are not out all that much. A Power Wall size filter would be very expensive to purchase in "hopes" that it might help.

Ask the installer/Tesla rep. if the Powerwall 3 is "CE" marked? I took a quick look and it looked as if that is planned ? Or maybe what I saw was old data so I am curious. CE marking allows them to be sold in Europe and CE marking requires a much more stringent series of Electromagnetic Emissions testing. It may be that they will need to install the filter the installer mentioned in order to meet the CE standards. Ferrite cores are generally only effective at higher frequencies, those much greater than the Insteon 131Khz. To attenuate or isolate the emissions from a device in the Insteon range requires a larger inductance. Like the Line reactor(inductor) I mentioned in my earlier post. IndyMike posted an interesting link. It would be nice to have a plot of the emissions from the Powerwall 3 showing what the offending frequencies are. If the installer/Tesla rep could provide some emissions test data that might be helpful. Best of luck to you all.

Hello Richtimpa, I do not have a power wall but will try to offer some insights and/or questions you can ask the Tesla rep. 1) What type of lights are blinking more often? LED or Incandescent or both? Are the lights on Dimmers? From your description it sounds like it may be a combination of things. It is likely the Power Wall (PW.) has internal filtering (across the line capacitors) to reduce the noise level it puts onto the power line. We refer to those as signal suckers. A signal sucker can make the communications less reliable and result in the sluggish query you see. It would be somewhat difficult to find an Insteon filter large enough to "isolate" the PW signal sucker from your power line. A large "Line Reactor" or inductor-only filter could possibly help but identifying that would be difficult without Tesla's help. You may have had some other signal sucker issues in your home prior to the PW install so the PW may not even be at fault for that one. It also sounds like the Solar Install may be communicating with the PW over the power lines and sending signals near zero cross that cause the lights to Flicker. LED would tend to be the most sensitive to this. If the biggest issue were with LED then a different brand might be less sensitive. If on Dimmers then adding a device such as a "Jasco lighting bypass" might help. If at all possible to get input from a Tesla expert that would be best as these types of issues can be difficult to resolve without knowing more about the Solar-PW interconnections. Having an Oscilloscope to observe the power line requires a device to filter out the large 60hz waveform in order to observe low level power line noise interference. Best of luck to you.

Moderator, Please mark this thread as "Solved by MGustin"

A two wire device gets its power through its load. What type is the load and how many watts? If low wattage (25Watt minimum) Can you change the load to a higher wattage as a test? Capture a query of the device on level 3 comms viewer. Then capture a write changes comms on level 3.

Hello and Welcome to this forum, Are you willing to become an Automation Hobbyist? If not then I would recommend you stay with the Hub. I may be incorrect but I would think that most here would consider their automation interest a hobby. It definitely demands a bit of your time if you want to explore all the powerful features that an ISY/EISY can add to your existing automation installation. If you are willing to spend the time required the people on this site are great at offering their time to help you along the way. As already mentioned it would be helpful if you described a bit about your existing installation. I would suspect that you had to spend some time getting your existing installation up and running reliably. You say you are having some issues now with the Hub. Are you sure it is the hub? Many experience issues with getting their communications between devices reliable. If existing issues are communications related, then changing to an EISY alone may not be all that is required. Having to resolve communications issues can make you a hobbyist :)

Thanks for the Zooz information IndyMike, My wife had bought me a T-shirt years ago that says "I Void Warranties" I find my enthusiasm for changing/adding new automation types is waning. Will stay with the ISY994 as long as it allows me to.

Thanks Brian, With prices as they are now it might be tempting to replace the pushbutton switches but enforcing Dual Band coverage I felt was worth the cost. Unfortunately I have also just had an older In-Linelinc go bad. I have ordered a Micro Module for it as a replacement. $60 each fail is not been very kind to my retirement fund

I have a few older devices that have begun to fail recently. For the most part I had escaped the original devices "infamous Paddle Failures" but now some older devices are starting to fail in similar ways. I had just replaced two 2476D's that started requiring multiple taps to turn on. I did not mind that so much as the older units (R5.15) were not dual band and I liked the idea of improving my RF coverage with more dual band devices. Right after replacing the second unit, in a two gang box, another 2476D next to it failed in the ON position. I could not turn it off manually, but could turn it off via the ISY. The paddle felt very stiff when trying to push the bottom section ( off). I was hopeful that I could simply replace the Paddle section only with some color replacements I had. After changing out the paddle the 2476D worked once again. What was strange to me is that after removal of the original paddle, that paddle itself seemed to work just fine when no longer mounted. Being curious I cut open the paddle to see what was going on. As you can see in the picture one of the two "D-shaped rockers" had broken off and lodged itself in the bottom section of the switch. This prevented the paddle from being able to depress in the down position(off). Once the paddle was removed the D-shaped piece had migrated again and thus freed up the down position operation once again.

I have the same issue with either Chrome or Edge. Page forward or page back , or goto page# = none of them work and have not for a few weeks now. using either win 10 or 11.

Your last line may be where the confusion comes in. IndyMike and I are saying that the MSII can be retriggered once the ON time has timed out at 40 sec+ ... your last line is now attempting to retrigger the device BEFORE the On time times out and thus it will not send more ON commands. If you don't wait you are re-extending the ON time by restarting it. Anytime you wait long enough for the ON timer to expire then a retrigger can be created and once again an ON command is sent. When configured for ON-ONLY there is NO OFF time. You must wait for the ON time to expire before retriggering if you want additional On commands to be sent.