porscheguy

Thanks for your reply, and I will try out your suggestion when I get a chance. But here is a response to your questions: 1) PLM 2412S, V2.9 Rev 3.1; As far as controlled devices having occasional problems, EZIO40V00, and 2476S SwitchLinc Relay V00, 2476D SwitchLinc Dimmer V00 (all version numbers except the PLM are what my admin window tells me). 2) In the cases of interest, the device actually does not do what it is supposed to do, e.g. a light is supposed to go off and doesn't. Why the commands fail I do not know of course. The signal strength seems to be good; repeated comands from the admin window almost always work, the device responds properly to scheduled program commands on a daily basis for weeks or even months without error, but occasionally fails, and that is why I want to be notified. Sometimes the command fails at a time of extreme "quietness," e.g. early in the morning when no TVs, CFLs or other RF or unusual activity should be possibly interfering with the signals. If it happened a lot it would drive me crazy and I would trash the system. Maybe it is one of those rare neutrino collisions, maybe a cosmic ray, whatever. I just want the system to be reliable and I don't spend my free time studying the idiosyncracies of this system (and there are lots of them!). Now that I have installed 3.1.17 and have variables to play with, I will slowly try your idea and get back with you on this. I will mention that I did, on my own (or maybe as a result of perusing the forum), find a solution of sorts that has been a work around for some time, but I raised this issue again just to see if there is a new, better way. What I did is as follows in pseudocode (I don't know how to copy my code like you did): Program TurnOffValve: If Status Valve Is On Then Set Valve Off; Wait 5 Seconds; Run Program CheckValveIsOff (If) Wait 5 Seconds; Run CheckValveIsOffOrAlert (If) Else (Nothing) Program CheckValveIsOff: If Status Valve Is On Then Set Valve Off; Else Stop Program TurnOffValve Program CheckValveIsOffOrAlert: If Status Valve Is On Then Send Notification To 'Me' content 'Valve is not off' Else (Nothing) The key here is the ability to terminate a program mid-stream by use of the Stop Program command. This has worked pretty well, and since the event happens rarely, I'm not bothered too much (only once in maybe six months on a critical valve, I haven't used this on lights yet). Obviously I can repeat the Wait X seconds and Check many times before sending an alert and hopefully the valve will eventually be shut off without bothering me. But if I am in some remote location when it happens, I can log in remotely and take some kind of remedial action. Thanks again -

Not sure how to do this, but I started this topic some time ago and Michel promised something would be done about it. I've just upgraded to 3.1.17 and wonder if anyone can tell me if it is now possible to respond to an error such as -2 as I had requested? Briefly - this means a command was sent to a device and no confirmation was received (or something along those lines). For me that means something I wanted to happen didn't. So I would like - in program mode - to sense such an error and launch a routine to try to remedy it. For example if a pump is supposed to turn off and a -2 error is received, a routine would be called which could wait 10 seconds and try to turn the pump off again. If the error occurred again, the process could be continued in a loop for a fixed number of times (e.g. 5 times) after which an email notice could be sent alerting me to the failure. Thanks for any update on this -

I'm back again. I decided to continue in this topic because of my issues with errors and wanting to be able to deal with errors in a programming methodology. But it brings to mind a question that probably is better handled in a different forum area, and maybe someone can point me to the appropriate area. The question is - why do I get these errors? Here is my reason for asking this. I have device D200 (the 200 means it is at least 200 ft away from the PLM and ISY), another device D100, and another device D1. (Don't ask me right now which power leg, and how many other Insteon devices are on each path, because I don't know at the moment!) But I send on/off commands to each of these and I get the same basic result on the Event Viewer (without the timng) - [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 16.6A.3F 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.6A.3F AA.AA.AA 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) [standard-Direct Ack][16.6A.3F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 What this indicates to me is that in all cases, whether 200 ft away, or 100 ft away, or 1 ft away, the signal is achieved directly with 1 hop (or is it 0 hops?). No problem as far as signal strength. With such seemingly good communication, why do I get any errors at all from such devices? With additional hops available, and with the supposed "Retries" that Insteon claims as part of the "Insteon Engine" it would seem that I shouldn't have any errors. Let me note that I have receivded errors from devices at times when there is no other communication activity anywhere near the time of the error, and early in the morning when no powerline activity at all should be present. I have my event viewer set to Device Communication Events, which I think gives maximal communication info. It would seem to me that the number of hops required should be an indicator of network quality. I agree with LeeG that some device that could record or measure signal quality, noise, etc. would be helpful. What I want to know is: 1) When an error occurs, e.g. -2, will the event viewer show the supposed Retries that Insteon claims is part of the Insteon Engine. 2) As far as the Insteon Retries, how much time is allowed to elapse between retries? 2) Does the ISY as part of its software try to do any communication resolution of its own? Thanks anyone -

I guess what I was thinking is that in the cases I experience, it seems the first time I retry it succeeds, although currently there is a significant time lapse between an error and my finding out about it and trying to correct it. If a program condition were available, I would use repeats with a wait of some time - maybe 10 seconds - and retry. I'd also give up and send a notification after some number - say 5 - unsuccesful retrys. If there is a major communication problem I'm up a creek anyway and a notification would hopefully go out and I'd get around to finding out what is going on. If it's optional - let the buyer beware! But anything in this direction would be appreciated. Thanks Michel - I guess that's enough on this subject.

Thanks Michel - I think that would be very useful. Just as a thought, maybe if something like this were available, the user could select which specific errors would result in a notification; any error, or a set of certain selected errors. On another tact, it would also be nice if an error could trigger a condition in a program in which case a repeat loop could be implemented to try to resolve the error. Thanks again -

FYI - I just had another of those "infrequent" failures to communicate. A pool pump controlled by an EZIO40 failed to operate because of a communication error. It has worked for weeks but today it decides not to communicate. I get a nice dialogue on my ISY that that particular device failed to communicate. It seems it would be very "easy" ( for you that is) to, at the same time that the dialogue is gereated, an optional notification could be generated. However, in the log, I note something that I don't understand. I don't know yet how to cut and paste from the log and get it to look right, but here is a segment: PoolEquipment / ValveDirection On 255 Tue 2011/04/05 11:00:00 AM Program Log PoolEquipment / ValvePower On 255 Tue 2011/04/05 11:00:00 AM Program Log ] 02 02 [uNKNOWN ] 02 02 Tue 2011/04/05 11:00:01 AM System -2 PoolEquipment / PoolPump Tue 2011/04/05 11:00:05 AM System -2 PoolEquipment / ValvePower Off 0 Tue 2011/04/05 11:00:40 AM Program Log PoolEquipment / ValveDirection Off 0 Tue 2011/04/05 11:00:40 AM Program Log PoolEquipment / ValveDirection Status 100% Tue 2011/04/05 11:00:40 AM System Log PoolEquipment / ValveDirection Status 0% Tue 2011/04/05 11:00:41 AM System Log At 11:00 am it is correct that a command to turn on ValvePower, and turn ValveDirection off. I see the commands going out and then later the status showing that the commands were correctly executed. But in the middle of all of this there is the two -2 errors and the UNKNOWN indicator. None of this should be there - there is no communication scheduled for the PoolPump at this time. What is all this about? All of these - ValvePower, ValveDirection and PoolPump are relays in the same EZIO40. Is this somehow relevant?

That would be a good thing - Thanks Michel

Hmmm - Obviously I'm new at this, but I find this troubling. Insteon touts their product as being very robust, but in fact it isn't. The forum is full of users who are happy to finally achieve 98% reliability. So if I have a control system, that really controls much of the time, but occasionally not - I at least want some way of knowing when there is a problem. And I'd like to know right away - not a week later when I return home, or when I happen to log in from a remote location and find the error in a log file. At least so far, the only problems I have are due to device A (for example a relay) that is told to activate (or deactivate) and it doesn't do it. In this case the error is that a status request is unanaswered and the ISY flags this as an error. Is there no way that I can get a notification (email) whenever there is an error of any kind?

I've searched for a while trying to find a post dealing with this issue but decided to just ask a question: I have what seems to be a pretty solid Insteon-only (no X-10) system. I have no problem communicating with all devices manually, and under program control I get pretty reliable performance. But I occasionally get errors (-2) where no acknowledgement of the status occurs, and this usually means that the device does not do what it has been commanded to do. I can and will continue to work at getting a better network but what I want to know is how - under program control - to deal with errors when they occur. Whenever I've experienced an error - the next time I try to communicate with the same device it works fine - so it is an infrequent event. What I'd like is a way of detecting the error and be able to repeat the command until it "takes" or, if it doesn't after a few attempts, have it notify me by email. I see nothing in the program capabilities that detects an error so I can't use it in a condition. What is the best and most general way to detect and respond to an infrequent error of this type automatically (or automagically) when they occur? Thanks for any help -

I would like to know, if anyone can answer this; what does the InLineLinc (ILL) sense input circuit look like? A simplified circuit is all I'm looking for. I've determined that it needs more than 66 VAC for the ILL sense to detect an "On" state from a motion sensor (MS). 80 VAC does work, and I've seen elsewhere on the forum that it needs to go pretty close to 0 VAC to sense an "Off". My question is whether it needs to be AC; will a DC level work? Is there a capacitive input? (I'm asking here before I try it in hopes of not destroying an ILL to find out!). I have a MS that does not put out enough VAC when "On" to trigger the ILL. Yes, I can go get a different MS but if a DC signal will work, a few inexpensive passive devices can get me the requisite DC level without much trouble. I would like to keep the exisiting MS. Thanks for any input.

OK. After some detours I was able to carry out the experiment and I think you've got it nailed. I was able to link the EZIO40 to a SwitchLink in the same circuit a few feet apart. The relay on the EZIO40 does activate (click). The links table on the SwitchLink does show a link to the EZIO40 but the links table on the EZIO40 is the same as before. So - bottom line I need newer firmware on the EZIO40? I've got a call into Simple Home Net to see how I can get this done. Thanks for all the help. (I've got to go away for awhile but I'll check in later.)

So let me get this straight: for this experiment do I link the devices "outside of the ISY"? In otherwords act like there is no ISY and link the devices first by putting controlling device (e.g. a SwitchLinc) in the linking mode and then put the EZIO40 in linking mode (by using the Set button sequence for the particular relay)? Then add the EZIO40 and look at the links? Should both devices (the SwitchLinc and EZIO40) be deleted from the ISY before doing the preceding?

OK - now what is going on! This is like many of my projects - I start making a small change and things snowball. I decided to do your last suggestion: I deleted the EZ, then did the factory reset, then I added it back into the ISY using the address and pulldown menu approach. I then decided to look at the links table of the EZ. It comes back with: 0FF8 : 00 10 AA.AA.AA FF 00 00 I then did a Compare. In the past a window comes up and shows the ISY table and says identical or not on each line. Now I never get the other window and I have an hourglass cursor that won't quit. I exited out of the admin window, reopened and all looked good. But if I try to compare link tables I get the hourglass again. Should I have removed the remotelinc too? Finally - I did delete the remotelinc (because there might have been some vestiges of connection to the EZ) and restarted the admin window. When I looked at the links table for the EZ it is a single line as above. But this time instead of a compare right away, I instead looked at the ISY links table and for the EZ it is blank. Why isn't there a link? And by the way the EZ works if I send a command from the device window. Also by the way - once I removed the remotelinc I no longer get the hourglass when I hit the compare but I don't get the behavior I saw before either (window popping up showing identical on each line) even for a "good" behaving insteon device where the two links tables look the same except for a line in the device with all zeros. Now what?

LeeG Sorry, but I guess I don't know how to do a factory reset on the EZIO40. It doesn't seem to be in any of my documentation.

Thanks for the input, Lee: I purchased my EZIO40 5/12/09 from SmartHome. But if the ISY does communicate fine with the EZIO as I have mentioned (just not within a scene) can the EZIO be "plugged"? By the way what does that mean, anyway? And also - it seems the links are alright. Also, earlier you asked: Here is what mine does when I press button 1 on the RL: Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2C.72 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00) Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [standard-Group][0A.2C.72-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [ A 2C 72 1] DON 0 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [ 1 72 14 1] ST 255 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2C.72 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00) Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [standard-Group][0A.2C.72-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : Duplicate: ignored Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2C.72 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00): Process Message: failed Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [standard-Group][0A.2C.72-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2C.72 AA.AA.AA 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2C.72-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 I'm going to try your procedure anyway and I'll get back after I do it.

Thanks for the input, Lee: I purchased my EZIO40 5/12/09 from SmartHome. But if the ISY does communicate fine with the EZIO as I have mentioned (just not within a scene) can the EZIO be "plugged"? By the way what does that mean, anyway? And also - it seems the links are alright. Also, earlier you asked: Here is what mine does when I press button 1 on the RL: Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2C.72 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00) Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [standard-Group][0A.2C.72-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [ A 2C 72 1] DON 0 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [ 1 72 14 1] ST 255 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2C.72 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00) Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [standard-Group][0A.2C.72-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : Duplicate: ignored Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2C.72 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00): Process Message: failed Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [standard-Group][0A.2C.72-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2C.72 AA.AA.AA 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Wed 02/09/2011 03:20:13 PM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2C.72-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 I'm going to try your procedure anyway and I'll get back after I do it.

The EZIO is perhaps 2 yrs old - I'd have to do some research. I used the New command and chose the EZIO40 from the drop-down list. All seemed to go well. The link lists seem to be good. It came up with all 4 parts of the EZIO and so far I am only working on the first relay. Outside of the scene and the use of the remotelinc, all works fine, even the other relays in programs or direct device communication (under the old firmnware and not in scenes). Unfortunately I have other duties calling and won't be able to continue this until later. I will look into when the EZIO was purchased. Thanks -

Well, OK. the command was to send a group command to the EZIO to turn off (or open) the relay when it was actually already off. Maybe that is what is supposed to happen. Here is what happens when it is off (previously determined by a query) and a command to turn it On is given followed by a query which shows it is still Off: Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:08 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.10 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:08 AM : [ 1 72 14 1] ST 255 Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:22 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 01.72.14 0F 4F 02 06 IOCTL (QUERY) Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:22 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 01.72.14 AA.AA.AA 2B 4F 00 IOCTL (00) Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:22 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][01.72.14-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:22 AM : [ 1 72 14 1] ST 0 Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:22 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 01.72.14 0F 49 00 06 RINPUT (00) Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:22 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 01.72.14 AA.AA.AA 2B 49 00 RINPUT (00) Wed 02/09/2011 10:32:22 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][01.72.14-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 In this case the first 2 records seem to indicate an ISY command to turn the EZIO relay on, and indicates that it is on but the quesry shows it is actually still off. My point after all this is I think I have followed all the correct procedures (updated firmware, deleted both the EZIO and the remotelinc, added them back in, re-established the links and verified them, re-created the scene and so on and yet neither the remotelinc nor the scene work as advertised or expected. At this point I guess I need to ask for phone support. In time, and after way too much grinding in the intricacies of error logs, event viewers etc., maybe I could figure this out. But this is supposed to be straightforward and I need some clues. Thanks for the input so far -

Update: I deleted the EZIO40 and re-added it under 2.8.14 firmware. I then added the EZIO to the scene and made sure the remotelinc was linked again. When I do the links compare with the ISY for both the remotelinc and the EZIO40 all links are identical but there is an extra record with a bunch of FFs which I take to be meaningless. Similar result: I cannot control the device with either the remotelinc or the scene itself. The scene indicates all is well but a query shows no response by the EZIO. In the event viewer, when I press the button on the remotelinc, I get a lot of activity but I note a phrase "process message failed" which obviously isn't good. However when I activate the scene, I get a single communication line and that also is wrong. I haven't advanced to the position of fully understanding every hex character but there should be more activity than a single line. That line is Wed 02/09/2011 08:49:59 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.10 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) So far I don't know what this means. It seems the first line of attack is to get the scene itself to work correctly since that is just ISY to EZIO40 communication (as far as the EZIO responding anyway). I repeat I can operate the EZIO fine directly using the device communication window - just not the scene that has the EZIO in it. Any more input or suggestions?

Thanks for the input. I'm afraid I didn't write down the previous build number. My ISY is new, but I know it didn't have anything in the 2.8.x range. When I couldn't get the scene to work under the old firmware I realized I might need to update. As for the relay on the EZIO40 - I want to use the first relay in this scene. I have tried Write Updates to device and restore device. What are the steps to remove the device from the ISY world and re-adding it? Any special procedures needed? I will try deleting and re-adding the device and see if that works.

I have a remotelinc controlling an EZIO40 in a scene. The scene looks correct to me now that I've updated my firmware to 8.14 (it didn't before). I've checked the link tables on both devices and they seem to be correct and the compare shows everything as it should be. I can activate the EZIO40 device by using the device window directly so the ISY-EZIO communications is good. If I activate the key on the remotelinc (the first key) the scene updates to show the EZIO turned on or off as the case may be. The problem is that a query shows the EZIO is not responding to the key. The same result occurs if I activate the scene. Watching the event window I don't see anything wrong - but I may not recognize it if it is wrong. Any suggestions? I'm under the impression the EZIO40 and remotelincs are fully supported now. The version number of the EZIO40 seems to be VFF and for the remotelinc it seems to be v00 (does that make sense?). By the way I have multiple access points and on both phases of power. But since I see ISY to EZIO communication and remotelinc to ISY it seems that shouldn't be the problem. And the fact the scene itself doesn't work indicates to me something else is amiss. Suggestions?

Thanks oberkc. OK so it is a "vestige" of the last time it ran? I won't belabor this much more, and will instead learn from trial and error, but I have a lot of programming experience (experience, but not an expert) in everything from machine code, assembly language, fortran, basic, c, c++ and some exotic object oriented languages and to me true and false are usually the result of evaluating a boolean expression, a representation that a routine completed successfully or an arbitrary designation of a "state" of some type. The present case seems to fall into that last category: So if a Program's last execution was in a Then clause it is True, but if it's last execution was in an Else clause it is False. If this is the case, I'm not quite sure yet why that is useful - knowing what type of clause it was last executed in - but maybe in time I will see it's usefulness. This refers to my Folder example and I do understand the aspect about programs in the folder being run by other programs independent of the Folder status. So when the Folder condition is evaluated, the True or False aspect does represent whether the Folder has or has not been disabled? In this case it is simply a flag on the folder that means these programs won't run on their own? It has nothing to do with whether any of the programs within the Folder have been run recently nor is it some complicated correlation of the True or False states of any of the contained Programs? Thanks again - I'm going to give this a rest and go to trial and error. It just would be nice if some overview of the code methodology were available. Maybe the information is somewhere in the Forum Posts. Thanks again -

(By the way I can't get the original subject to read right - the last word is supposed to be "True"? and I can't seem to correct it.) Enabled and Disabled seem to be more or less what I thought. But I don't follow what True and False mean. Here is my first scenario. I have a Program Folder that that has 5 pool equipment programs. The Program Folder is named PoolEquipment and I put a condition on the folder that if PoolEquipment is True Then the programs in the folder are allowed to run. I took True to mean here that the PoolEquipment folder was enabled. This is what I wanted: if I disable the PoolEquipment folder then none of the programs in the folder (including schedules) would execute. If this is wrong, how do I create a flag or virtual button in the ISY that I can togle to allow or disallow a folder of programs? Still confused on True and False as it relates to Folders and also Programs. Is there documentation on this somewhere I've missed?

I'm a little confused about the definition of Status as far as a Program or Folder is concerned. What does it mean that the Status of a Program or Folder is True even though it is Disabled (in the Program Summary tab)? I know I can set either of those to Enabled or Disabled but how do I set a Program or Folder True or False or what determines whether it is True or False? A Condition can test whether a Program or Folder is True or False - it doesn't test for Disabled or Enabled. Please elaborate. Thanks -

I am really new to the ISY and I wish that UDI would not only listen to comments in this and other threads that request increased documentation and examples for the ISY operation, but would do so in an incremental and timely manner when good solid points or examples are provided. I read where UDI is "working on it" in posts over a long time frame but I'm not sure when things actually find their way into the isy99_userguide. As a new user, the isy99_userguide is the first place I looked for learning how to use the ISY but found it insufficient to understand the subtleties of the ISY and the Insteon network. I really appreciate the posts by MarkJames and JohnRAdams in this Thread, and also the comments by Michel. These are helping me a great deal. But I am very irritated (sorry Michel) that I have to wade and crawl through the forum to find some light to illuminate the tunnel in trying to understand the idiosyncracies of the ISY, Insteon and the ISY programming. The editing by MarkJames is very much appreciated as he improves and corrects his Post and the fact that this Thread is a sticky one does help, but somehow more meat needs to get into the isy99_userguide so one can progress further from that document before wading into the forums. Appendices that contain MarkJames' and others' posts would be one way. I'm so new to the ISY that I haven't implemented my system yet because I don't want to leave a working hybrid X-10/Insteon system and implement an ISY/Insteon-only system until I understand better how to do it. This Thread has been a big help. Somehow the really good posts need to be brought together. Thanks again for the posts.