Schoolhouse

Thanks, Brian - No, I am not bringing any of the devices. I do understand the programs will need to be edited since "Basement 8" will now appear "missing unknown device." All the logic that went into the programs is what I am trying to preserve. Cheers, Tom

Hi, I am moving to a new home and am adding a new PLM / ISY. The new home currently does not have any automation. At the old home, I did lots of programming and I have a backup on my computer that will go to the new house. Two questions: 1) How do I preserve the extensive programming from the old home in case I need it at the new home? 2) For a few more days, I still have access to the old home ISY. Do I need to do anything to help me preserve the programming for the new home before I lose access? Thanks!

Thanks. great advice! (What does OP mean?)

...AND DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE ABOUT WHICH MIGHT BE PREFERRED, THE TL-150 OR TL 250. THANKS!

FROM ABOVE: "Method 2.) Programmaticly. This is the most fun and secure way of doing things. Secure depending on how you look at it at least.. you are hard-coding your alarm code in and all... but on the other hand you don't have two wires that can be joined together to arm/disarm your system. For this you must have two things: The network module for the ISY (Help->Purchase Modules) A DSC TL-150 or TL-250 network interface. (might work on others.. not sure..)" QUESTION WHERE DOES THE OTHER END OF THE LAN CABLE GO TO -- THE NETWORK ROUTER, OR TO THE ISY DIRECTLY?

Thank you, Michel. My electrician will contact you to discuss. He was present in most of the dialogue above. When I speak of "We" above, I mean him if it had to do with any actual installation. My role is the Systems. Before you talk with the electrician, you may want to know that the home has a panel and two sub panels. One sub panel is in the detached Guesthouse. The other sub panel is in the attached recent addition. Installation began first in the addition, then in Landscaping, followed by the rest of the original home. It all worked great. Lastly he installed the Guesthouse. Timing of communication errors saying to "check connections" began about a week ago at the same time as: 1) adding of 12 switches in the guesthouse, the last piece of the approximately 70 device installation 2) Upgrading to the new ISY version 3) Upgrading the [PLM or ISY] software for greater capacity above the approximately 225 initially provided 4) A lot of unfortunate programming where each button was given its own scene, only to then be corrected so that one scene had many controllers. So for the Hall, about a dozen scenes were deleted, being correctly replaced by one scene with 12 controllers. As the rest of the house programming was corrected. many more scenes were also deleted for other areas. 5) Purchase of iPad Mobilinc HD LeeG was great and may have been headed in the right direction when he was exploring communication bridges and interference. We gave him answers relating to the house, but the Guesthouse sub-panel may be creating problems Thank you in advance for your help, Michel!

Sounds like our frustration here has upset you. Please accept my apologies and know that I am grateful for all your efforts.

What you need to do is check My Lighting for errors after locally toggling some of the switches in your setup. ANSWER: WE DID EXACTLY THAT FOR EVERY SINGLE DEVICE IN THE HOUSE. EVERY SINGLE DEVICE IS FULLY FUNCTIONAL BY THE ISY. WE ALSO WENT TO EVERY DEVICE, AND DISCOVERED THAT 6 (ALL OF THEM KEYPADS) OUT OF 70 DEVICES DO NOT MAKE ANY REPORT OF CURRENT STATUS TO ISY, NOTWITHSTANDING THAT ALL OF THESE 6 DEVICES DO IN FACT OPERATE THE SCENE AS EXPECTED

There are a few things yet to be confirmed When the My Lighting entry is clicked to display all devices in the right pane do some devices show state changes and some do not? ANSWER: ALL DEVICES SHOW CURRENT STATE CHANGE WHEN THE ALL ON OR ALL OFF BUTTONS ARE CYCLED IN MY LIGHTING. Approx how many SwitchLincs/KeypadLincs show state changes, how many do not show state changes? I am only interested in the load control button/paddle, regardless of whether there is a load connected to it. ANSWER: NOT RELEVANT SINCE ALL ARE SHOWING CURRENT STATE CHANGE I would prefer to analyze a SwitchLinc that is not working as there are far fewer link records involved. ANSWER: THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN FOCUSED UPON. ONE SWITCHLINC 8 BUTTON.

There are a few things yet to be confirmed When the My Lighting entry is clicked to display all devices in the right pane do some devices show state changes and some do not? ANSWER: ALL DEVICES SHOW CURRENT STATE CHANGE WHEN THE ALL ON OR ALL OFF BUTTONS ARE CYCLED IN MY LIGHTING. Approx how many SwitchLincs/KeypadLincs show state changes, how many do not show state changes? I am only interested in the load control button/paddle, regardless of whether there is a load connected to it. ANSWER: NOT RELEVANT SINCE ALL ARE SHOWING CURRENT STATE CHANGE I would prefer to analyze a SwitchLinc that is not working as there are far fewer link records involved. ANSWER: THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN FOCUSED UPON. ONE SWITCHLINC 8 BUTTON.

I ran Compare again and every item shows [identical] to the left. The difference of 1 extra in Device Links table compared to icy table seems to be the last line I sent earlier which says [ignore] Is there more info you desire from these two table? If there is a summary in the device Links table, I do not see it.

The Show Device Links Table pulls link records until it finds an End Of List link record so it found one. It is identified by a 00 in the first byte. ANSWER: I EE 0000 : 00 04 1B.28.CB FF 1F 04 The new PLM location is communicating with the object switch better. A Hops Left=2 is good. GREAT, BUT WE INSTALLED A LAMMPLINC DUALBAND MODULE WICH BEHAVED IDETCAL TO THE SWITCH IN QUESTION. THAT IS TO SAY, THE ISY COULD CONTROL IT, BUT THE ISY DID NOT SEE CHANGES MADE AT THE DEVICE. Confirm that some SwitchLincs and/or KeypadLincs do show state changes when their Primary load control button is cycled On/Off. ANSWER: HOW DO YOU CONFIRM THIS? I DID IN MY EARLIER POST DISCUSS HOW OTHER CONTROLLERS IN THE SCENE DID SHOW THEIR CURRENT STATUS CHANGE. Does the Compare of the KeypadLinc Show Device Links Table indicate the link records are Identical? ANSWER: NO THEY ARE DIFFERENT. THE DEVICE COUNTS 70, THE ISY COUNTS 69. IN MY JUST SENT NOTE, I REMARKED HOW THIS SEEMED HIGHLY ODD BECAUSE DEESPITE NUMEROUS CHANGES ORIGINATING AT BOTH THE ISY AND THE DEVICE, MY COUNT DO NOT CHAGE AT ALL. THIS SEEMS WRONG, DOESN'T IT?

We moved the PLM to a new spot and the switch in discussion is now working at Max Hops=3, Hops left =2 for the switch we have been discussing. The switch in questions a KeypadLinc and it still does not show changes in Current Status in ISY. It always shows a current state of "Off" which never changes in the ISY Current state window when the actual current state is cycled on and off at that particular switch. This same switch does change current state in the window only when the status is changed in the ISY button on my computer. When we observe the scene this button controls, all the associated devices also show "Off," despite all being "On." When we go to a switch working correctly in the ISY, one that is also a controller in that same scene, all devices show "On," in the ISY, including the switch in question. I do not find an End of List record in the device Links table. In fact, I ran the compare again, hours later, and the count numbers are identical to this morning. 69 and 70. Seem like they should be different! I have been pushing that button a lot since then.

So the count after the PLM restore is now 612. That is significantly lower than the 928 before the restore. Unfortunately, the switch status changes occurring are still not registering in the ISY Status I disabled, and enabled the switch, to no avail. I restored switch and regarding communication, Max Hops =3, Hops left =1 all during the restore. No luck there, either. I ran device Links Table and it showed a count of: 70 Using Compare, The ISY Links table showed a count of: 69 The closeness of the number seems odd because there have been many times when I executed the switch failing to reveal status change What now?

I have 64 scenes. Does that mean the PLM thinks I have 928-64, or 864 devices? I assure you I do not have that many. My lighting has 64 items. Say 50 are 8 button items. Does that get me to a little more than 400 devices? If so, Something is wrong at the PLM that thinks I have 928

Okay Thanks, I will restore PLM tonight. Then in the morning, should I open up the Event Viewer and put it on #3 -- Device communications events, and walk around and push each button? I think this will show me the communication of each switch to the ISY, if any at all. Is that the next step? Also, If I am at the upper limit of the capacity of my PLM, would going to a bigger one now be the smart thing to do? Is there a bigger one?

Looking at the event viewer, I see a STANDARD CLEANUP switch that is Max Hops =1, Hops left =0

You asked I restore Modem (PLM). I will do that tonight. Will it help if turn off query for tonight? Would it also be helpful for me to restore devices? Thanks for your help!

so if I understand, you are saying that a switch responding to the ISY may have had 100 tries in getting it successfully to respond. A switch only sends the message once to the ISY?

Although the PLM spec says 1023 tests here indicate 992 as the maximum. All attempts to add link records past the 992 point failed. I suspect you did exceed the PLM link count as some point. I would do a Restore Modem (PLM) followed by a few more Show/Counts to see where the count is now. OKAY, I WILL DO IT. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WILL TAKE HOURS AND I SHOULD START BEFORE I GO TO BED AND TURN OFF QUERY FOR A NIGHT? Do the Dual Band devices pass the test for receiving RF and installed on opposite 120V legs? MY INSTALLER WENT HOME AND HE HAS THE DETAILS. I HAVE A PRAGMATIC VIEW. IF THE ISY CAN COMMUNICATE TO EVERY SWITCH CRYSTAL CLEAR, CAN WE RULE OUT A COMMUNICATION ISSUE REGARDING THE LEGS? THE ISY CAN TELL EVERY SWITCH WHAT TO DO WHEN WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM IN COMMUNICATIONS. ON THE OTHER HAND, SOME OF MY SWITCHES DON'T TELL THE ISY WHAT THEY ARE DOING. THAT DIES NOT FEEL LIKE AN RF PROBLEM, THOUGH IT MAY BE. FYI: WHEN I DELETE A SWITCH THAT DOES NOT TELL THE ISY WHAT IT IS DOING, AND REINSTALL SUCCESSFULLY, THE PROBLEM DOES NOT FIX ITSELF. WHEN I DELETE A SWITCH THAT IS TELLING THE ISY WHAT IT IS DOING AND REINSTALL, THIS SWITCH STILL CAN SUCCESSFULLY TELL THE ISY WHAT IT IS DOING.

Regarding the 6 button, I deleted and did an auto recognize install. It shows the standard 6 button configuration and line two on the right window shows the device to be a (2486D( Keypadlinc Dimmer 8 buttons v.40 The ISY can perfectly control the switch and change the status from on to off. the switch, when the buttons are pushed turn the light on and off, but do not tell the ISY about the current state change.

Is there any pattern to the devices that are not reporting state changes? Are they powered from the same 120V leg or powered from the same circuit breaker? ALL ARE DIFFERENT LEGS What type of PLM is being used with the ISY (2412 or 2413)? 2413S How many devices and ISY Scene have been defined? It is possible to define more devices and Scenes than the 2413S PLM has the capacity to support. Run Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Links Table. When the display is complete click the Count button. Run the Show/Count multiple times to see if the number of link records is consistent. Insteon traffic reaching the PLM while the PLM link records are being retrieved will produce false link record counts (high or low). 928 IS THE COUNT (CHECKED TWICE) IT MAY BE RELEVANT TO NOTE THAT I PREVIOUSLY PROGRAMMED ONE SCENE, ONE CONTROLLER, GIVING ME FAR MORE SCENES THAN I NEEDED. WHEN I LEARNED THAT I CAN HAVE MULTIPLE CONTROLLERS PER SCENE, I WENT BACK AND CONSOLIDATE ALL THE SCENES, DELETING MANY REDUNDANT SCENES. ON OCCASION IN THIS PROCESS, I RECEIVED AN ERROR MESSAGE THAT SAID A FILE COULD NOT BE OPENED AND THAT THE CONTROLLER FAILED. SINCE THE CONTROLLER WAS INSTALLED AND WAS WORKING, I FIGURED IT FIXED ITSELF AFTTER THE MESSAGE, BECAUSE IT DID APPEAR IN THE SCENE AS A CONTROLLER, AND DID OPERATE AS A CONTROLLER WHEN I CHECK MY ERROR LOG, I DO NOT FIND ANY PLACE THAT RECORDED WHICH DEVICES REPORTED THESE ISSUES. WOULD IT HELP TO RESTORE PLM TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM THAT STATUS NOT BEING UPDATED TO CURRENT STATUS?

"ANSWER: (2486D) KeypadLinc Dimmer 6 buttons v.00" The v.00 indicates the KeypadLinc was added to the ISY this time by selecting the 6 button KPL from the New INSTEON Device “Device Type†pulldown. That gives you the words Dimmer 6 (which mean nothing as far as ISY function is concerned) but now the KeypadLinc firmware is not known (v.00) so some of the features that require later firmware levels may not be utilized. OKAY, WE WILL DELETE AND DO AN AUTO INSTALL “ANSWER: Insteon bridge coupler designed for Insteon†That is a passive coupler. It may still be necessary to have a pair of Dual Band devices installed on opposite 120V legs. WE HAVE DUAL BAND ALSO “ANSWER: it has its own dedicated circuit with no surge protector.†Are there other equipment on that circuit breaker such as UPS/PC/Audio/Video equipment that are not on a FilterLinc? NO OTHER EQUIPMENT

FYI, Query status is False, if that is at all relevant

Forgive me if I am pointing out the obvious, but swapping face plates is not sufficient (or even necessary) to re-configure a six-button keypad to eight-button, or vice versa. More importanly, there is an electronic configuration process. This electronic process is (at least was when I performed it) defined in the keypad users manual. This process entailed pressing a bunch of buttons in a certain order, if I recall. I also believe that this MUST be done manually, since I do not think that this can be performed via the ISY. In summary, one must remove the keypad from the ISY. Electronically reconfigure the keypad (it seems to me a factory reset would be appropriate here). Change the face plate (optional). Add new device back into ISY.This worked beautifully for me when I did this a while back. ANSWER: We did do exactly all that. Rather than use auto discover, we specified it as a 6 button.