SteveKlos

Folks, I'm setting up a number of new controls around the house and finally getting my new house setup with Google Home integration through the ISY Portal. I have some programs that are setup to open and close things and they are using the "Device with Open/Close Syntax" option. Rationally, this would mean the open would execute the "then" of a program and the close would execute the "else". The problem - Google understand "Open the Pod Bay Door", but does not understand "Close the Pod Bay Door". However, it does understand "Shut the Pod Bay Door". It would be great if you could use either Shut or Close, but if the system is setup with the Open/Close Syntax, shouldn't it use Open/Close instead of Open/Shut?

I'm OCD as well - that's why I'll put a note in the box and the fixture where the wires are located, then I'll simply put a cover plate over that particular box. I completely get your perspective, but the fact that the switch box has wires coming into it from different breaker boxes caused my initial OCD to flare ?! Just to give it a bit of context - the switch box is on the far side of the garage - many of our moving boxes are between the main entrance to the garage and that switch (the boxes will be either emptied or thrown out after a year because they clearly didn't have anything we needed)... There really isn't any purpose to even have those switches available - they could just as well have been inline - ones for a security light, the other is the secondary switch for the outside lights in the shed. For this house, we do have one keypad installed, but only because we needed to have separate control for a number of lights. Beyond that, I use my phone for almost everything when I need to manage control of the gates, lights, garage doors, etc. It's always on me, always convenient and once I installed a mesh set of Access Points, it's available almost everywhere on the property (would be everywhere if there was better cell service here).

@Goose66 - I'm going to basically do what you suggested, but it feels really odd to have a hot and neutral, but no load going into the switch location in the garage since this would ONLY be useful for a smart switch. I also wouldn't want someone installing something else in that location (such as a plug) as it would not be obvious which breaker the location in the garage is associated with. But I do agree that I can re-wire the existing setup and keep it to code.

@MrBill, Could not agree more - in fact in my original post I fessed up immediately to say I didn't take pictures because I thought I knew what I'd find. Also in case anyone is concerned I don't do work on electrical things unless I know what I'm doing and why... And my post here was frankly a laziness on my part to not have to re-wire. As I have watched the discussion ensue, I realized - yeah, I need to take the time to re-wire - it'll be safer, will be up to code and I can leave a label maker note in the capped off 3way switch box that indicates where the wires go in the case that a future owner of the house is ever curious. Having said that - thank you to all who responded!

Thanks everyone for the comments! I'll know more once I find the fixture that has power going to it, but upon reflection, what I'll be doing is re-wiring the existing setup so that there is only one smart switch in the shed - that's properly configured (and labeled). In the Garage, there is no need for a switch, so I'll cap off the wires, include a label that indicates where the wires go (in case anyone in the future cares - or I become senile and decide I need to "fix" the old switch ?). Then I'll put a cover over the secondary switch area. The whole point of a smart switch is to enable automation and convenience. The three way switch in the Garage was poorly located anyway, so would be unlikely to be used in any situation I can think of. Now, I just need time to make the changes...

@lilyoyo1 - I appreciate the comments - and you're very correct that an online forum is not an area where you can make assumptions (it sounds like you've got experience in the field - hopefully I didn't cause you any angst with my comment about a white wire carrying power if the wire is ID'd as not being a neutral)... You are also especially correct in not assuming how something has been implemented in a system that you can't see - safety when working with electricity is something I'm always hyper aware of (which is why I was working to validate which leads were hot to begin with). I haven't yet seen a wiring diagram that shows the old code for a 3 way switch like this (where 110 is going across a traveler and where power goes into the light switch fixture, then from that fixture, each switch has one 4 wire Romax going to it). I've been searching for that, but it's likely buried. It sounds like you are familiar with electrical codes - at a guess any timeframe on when the old code might have been used (it could help me to narrow down a search to find that approach). And for anyone following this - I'm not going to use a diagram of the connections to run out and wire up the switches. I need to find the fixture where power is going in, but if I can view a diagram of such a connection, when I find that fixture, I'll already know what I'm looking for in the connections...

Mr. Bill - I think you may have just ID'd part of what's going on - and I was today's days old when I've seen that particular diagram for wiring a 3 way switch (even with all the searching I've been doing on the Internet. Thank you! The oddity for me is that there two of the leads are hot in one of the J-boxes - that doesn't make sense to me. I am using a hot stick (Klien NCVT-2). When used in the -2 mode, I do see power - likely via induction, but it's low voltage. When used in the -1 mode (which ID's only 110 voltage), it seems pretty solid that I have 110 on the wires identified. I'll use a meter sometime this week to validate, but I've not seen the hot stick give spurious notifications for 110... As mentioned in another post, I believe I know where the power is likely feeding into the light set, so will have a look at that fixtures J-Box. Larryllix - you are absolutely correct - what I wrote and what I have in the picture are different... The picture is correct - I'll edit the text so it mirrors the image - if for no other reason than the next person who has this issue and may find this thread. Thanks!

Thanks Lilyoyo1... In a 3 way switch, the white wire can be used as a traveler, but it's supposed to be ID'd as such. I suspect that this could be the case here where the wire simply was not identified with tape or paint as it should have been. Though I agree with the concept of getting an electrician out, unfortunately, it's difficult to get an electrician scheduled. After I wrote this, I thought a bit more about the problem and how an electrician would most efficiently wire something like this - I think I know which light the power might be feeding into, so I'll have a look behind that light and see if it sheds any light onto this issue (pun only partially intended :-) ).

Folks, First up - I did something stupid. I took the switches off a 3 way connection without taking a picture of the wiring on both sides. How hard could it be I asked - a 3 way switch circuit is easy - I've actually wired a few, but not like this... Once the breaker was off and I'd pulled the switches, I capped the wires and checked for power on each of the lines. Because there is no line to the breaker box from either switch, the power must be going into one of the light J-boxes, then heading to each switch location. As a piece of this puzzle, the lights and the breaker box for the lights are in the shed, so I'm fairly certain that the actual load wire is located in the shed. What's odd from my perspective is that the 4 wire set going into the shed has 1 hot wire and the 4 wire set going into the garage has 2 hot wires (hot wires ID'd with a Klein NCVT-2 setup in NCVT-1 mode - 110 volt ID only). Unfortunately, I have no idea which light J-box the power goes into - so I can't see how the wires are interconnected (if I could, this forum topic would not be being written). Edit here - I think I may know which fixture I need to look at, so will review later this week. Both locations have 4 wires - white, black, red and ground. Clearly, the whites are not necessarily neutral wires as one of them in the garage is hot. The image (attached) shows the basic setup in the switch boxes. I'm nearly certain that the wiring will be a relatively standard wiring setup - everything else I've seen in the shed is a more modern wiring standard than what's in the house. Having said that, there are no indicators on the white wire in the garage that indicate that's it's not a neutral wire... Does anyone have any idea what the J-Box for the lights might look like from a wiring perspective to have these two (and there are only two) switches have the 110 volt wires setup as they are? Due to the nature of the setup where the lights are on the shed, a breaker box (with the light breaker) is in the shed and one of the light switches is in the shed, I'd expect that the load wire would also be in the shed. If I could simply get the shed switch working independently of what's in the garage, I could then setup a separate switch that would be a controller for the shed switch - so that part, I believe, would be pretty straight-forward. I'm just not able to piece together how the power is wired into the J-Box with the lights and the wires that are going to the two switches. Can anyone provide a guess? Many thanks and good karma going your way if you can help! Thanks!

It's kludgy, but it works... My goodnight program just calls other programs if I need an if to understand the sensor. Based on comments here, I include a delay - good though just to make sure there's no contention and, it's really not like I need it down immediately! Where I live, if someone leaves a pram in the gate area, or under the garage, that would be considered child abandonment, so yeah - really not an issue. If I damage my car - my bad - I'll cope. Having a good night program that will close the gate only if it's open and the same with the garage (with some time delays included) - priceless! This is what home automation is about! Would I like to say a fox didn't just run into the garage (older home, garage door didn't have sensors and I'm not adding them) sure as I wouldn't want to be going into the garage with a fox (or even a bear), but I'm willing to risk the fact that if the garage door is closing, the animal will make the right decision! Now, I need to move the ISY portal from one house to another (we're doing our shelter in place in a place that's more sheltered ) and I can simply tell Google to do the work - this is not quite The Jetson's, but it's certainly getting closer (the Roomba doesn't talk back, so I can tell we're not quite there yet ) . Thanks for everyone's comments - really appreciated! Cheers, SK

Folks, OK - our place has 4 different garage sensors. I would like to setup a "goodnight" program. This program would need to include if/then validations for each of the sensors. I believe this should be straight-forward - basically I could have a "goodnight program" that does the following: call close_gate program call close_garage1 program call close_garage2 program Each of these programs will essentially be something like: close_gate if sensor is open then turn gate on //this closes the gate close_garage1 if sensor is open then turn garage1 on //this closes the garage close_garage2 if sensor is open then turn garage2 on //this closes the garage The question I have will this work without interruption? Depending on the processing done on the ISY, it may only allow one program to run at a time - meaning the goodnight and possibly close_gate would run and that's it. It's also possible that multiple threads can be operating at the same time meaning that all 3 close_ programs are likely to run at nearly the same time. I just want to ensure I'm not running down a dead end alley here... How do others deal with multiple garage sensors and a single program that needs to utilize the if/then capabilities of the ISY. Cheers, SK

I'll DM you the SN - I think I've had the device for ~ year. This particular device is for a second home and it took a bit before I picked up the new ISY... Other than the SN, I'm not sure how to tell the date (it's possible I purchased via Amazon - I can have a look)... Cheers, SK

Michael Quick question - does Universal Devices fix ISY's? I'm happy to pay for the service and shipping (as long as it costs less than a new system ? ). It would be great to have a backup unit available should this happen again. If nothing else, I'd be happy to send you the defective unit for you to see what failed and try to understand why it failed. Cheers, SK

That's unfortunate - I'll order a new one so I can swap the old one out.

Michael, Unfortunately, No joy! Fortunately, I had an adapter that's 12V DC positive tip with the same connector (didn't think the stars would align that easily, but they appeared to). The boot sequence looked similar to last nights. Cheers, SK

So, it's hard to give a light pattern during bootup in textual form. So, I present you with a 1 minute video (hopefully, you can get to this link). https://photos.app.goo.gl/DNMNfM7Vbn5Q7cYa8 I can tell you that the Power button stays lit for the entire time - at the end of the apparent boot sequence, it's the only light that's on RX/TX flash intermittently memory flashes intermittently Error never flashes Additionally: There is no MicroSD card inserted The isy is plugged into a power surge powerstrip (I can't attest to the actual quality, but I did research to find a decent model). The PLM is plugged into the same strip, but the ISY commands are all working fine - and the last time I checked, there weren't any errors. I don't have a backup copy of the programs, but as I'm working on ramping up at the new house, that won't be a problem - if it's easier to reset the device and see if that fixes the issue, I'm OK with that (as long as I can buy a new one and have it shipped while we're in the CV-19 shelter in place ;-). Cheers, SK

Sorry, should have included all testing I've done... I did ping the device - I received ICMP responses from ISY. I also double checked - there is a fixed IP address assigned to the MAC address for the ISY and the device name/IP address shows up in the DHCP server with only one device assigned to the IP address. Basically - I can see the device is on the network, I can see some IP traffic on the ISY when it's pinged. I cannot, however, access it via a web browser or app. I've rebooted the whole stack to see if I could re-establish comms - no luck. Unfortunately, I don't think I backed up this particular ISY because the number of devices attached (at the moment), is minimal. I'd like to do a backup, but if I can't re-establish comms with the device, I won't be overly upset! I do see a micro USB connector that indicates it's a "monitor" port. Anything I can do with this? Cheers, SK

Folks, Somewhat recently, we had a power outage. Since that time (and unknown if before that time), my ISY stopped responding to network devices. The programs still worked, it was still processing all regular commands to the ISY devices. However, I could not access the ISY via Mobilelinc, nor could I connect to the device via browser. In my research, I found the following thread - which I'll be following up to see if I can get a better boot sequence when power is restored - https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16341-isy-not-responding/ Today, I went through the process of working out what is going on. I did a full and proper reboot of the stack (unplug everything and wait 20 seconds, then plug in modem wait until it's fully up, plug in PLM - received a green light, plug in router, it's fully up and full Internet access is avail, check all cables on PLM, ISY and router - all solid, plug in ISY). During the stack reboot, I do see the ISY has the transmit and receive lights flash a few times, then flash a bit more like there is traffic, but when I try to connect again via browser or Mobilelinc, no response (on either the internal or external IP addresses with or without SSL). From all evidence I can see, the device appears to be working as expected, but the network interface seems to be dead. My ISY's have been extremely reliable, but anything and everything can break at some point. Is there anything else I can do to debug this issue? If the network interface has gone south, what can I do to replace - just buy another device? Cheers, SK

Unsure if this may help, but I was having issues with my ISY essentially getting DDoS issues from X-10 noise. Took a while, but I figured out the issue for me - have a look at this posting - Cheers, SK

Yea - I know - RTFM :-). I'll be honest, didn't think about going there as it was not top of mind, but I will next time I get stuck on something like this! Problem is, I dip into home automation when I have time (like tonight - wife is at yoga, it's after working hours and I have some time on my hands). I never seem to get time to read up on all the tech I have... Also, it's not fair to consider my time - this is a hobby for me, but I do get frustrated when I see UI/UX that could provide immediate support to the user (i.e. when adding a RemoteLinc 2, have an "i"nformation icon that warps me to the spot in the Wiki that discusses this item... And yes, I know, linking to documentation takes time and there are other features to add that support more home automation options. You need to choose the options that make the mose sense for Universal-Devices. I know others on these forums could teach me a thing or 1,000 about setting up the ISY and I recognize that I'm likely a more casual user than many here - just trying to provide some feedback.

Folks, I just spent 2.5 hours working through how to add a remotelinc2 to my ISY. Turns out that my issue was how ISY handles Insteon addresses. I tried xx-yy-zz and xxyyzz - neither worked. I happened to see a post on this forum (unrelated to the remotelinc) that showed the address as xx.yy.zz. It would be incredibly helpful if, on the dialog that asks for the address if there is some information (either a help link, some text, or frankly, anything that indicated that the address for Insteon devices should be entered as xx.yy.zz. If I'd have had that information, I'd have been done in 5 minutes. 5 minutes v.s. 1.5 hours - pain in the butt for many, I often look at it as billable time if I was doing for work. If that were the case, this would have been a $1250 problem. I'm lucky, my billable hours are expensive, but damn, this was a pain in the butt until I figured it out!

Thanks for the response larryllix! I'm going through all the programs in my system now to update... I've been using flags and variables to keep states and it seems this can be done much more efficiently by making the system easier to extend and expand. I expected the order of execution to be non-deterministic and potentially change in the future, fortunately, from what I'm cooking up, I don't think that will matter.

Folks, I've got motion detectors on my doors and would like to have multiple different things happen for each detection event. One event, I'd like the ISY to do a rest call to my security system to send an image to my cell via text, then, I'd like to have a 2 minute latency before I send another pic. The other event, if appropriate based on other conditions, I'd like to set some lights to a percentage of on and after a 5 minute timer, turn them off. Seems pretty straight-forward and I know how I can do these two different programs - basically, I'll set a state variable for the image count-down and the light timer count down. Pretty easy. The question - I know that the ISY will kick off a program based on a change of state of an Insteon system or state variable. Is there any issue with ISY having multiple programs that are initiated by the state change? i.e. can I have two different programs that are initiated by the motion detection without issues? The Insteon motion sensor 2 provides a "motion on" and after 5 min, a motion off (configurable). If I can initiate multiple programs using this motion event, I can make this work well (and it'll be tons easier than trying to keep various states of the system managed. Cheers, SK

@KCLENDEN - you are correct - unsure I like the UX, but there is a button underneath the "on" command that allows for a % to be specified. I'd never have noticed that and would likely have been frustrated many times over. To UDI - Just a general UI/UX suggestions - I'm not a big fan of data entry fields that appear and disappear off the screen based on some actions. This also isn't typically considered a very "accessible" design since (though, if done properly, this could be more usable to a blind person depending on what alt-text you add for the triangle). As for the light grey text on a blue background - contrast simply isn't there to make it have the attention it should deserve.

I like this idea. Never thought about disabling the automated systems when doing something manually. One issue I see... Most of the manual activities I do are based on scenes. I've not yet figured out how to get the isy to react to scenes - can it be a responder and in that response kick off a program? Cheers, SK