Jay M

I decided to spend some money and do some testing before I spends thousands of dollars. i3 vs. 2477D: The i3 has a satin finish and the 2477D is glossy. If you are an OCD type of person. you'll want - no, need it all to match. The i3 doesn't have a frame around the rocker. That can be problematic when you need to cram a bunch of switches into a small box. The i3 rocker can get stuck on the wall plate. On the plus side, it will be a cleaner look if you can make it work. I bought 3 brands of dim to warm down lights to test - Lotus $80 each, DMF H series, also about $80 each, and a $25 Halo from Lowes. The i3 didn't allow the LEDs to dim as low as the older 2477D. So I don't plan to use it. One thing I noticed in testing was how the lights would power on. All 3 would sort of pop on at 20%, then smoothly continue to brighten. But if I used the app to control the dimer and set the slider to 3%, after a second or so, the LED would softly begin to glow. It's as if the LED driver needs to energize first. I think with some clever programming, I can make a scene that will fade on almost as nice as a $1 incandescent bulb. In case you are interested here's how the lights look... DMF H series - great color, but when you dim down to 15%, they just cut off instantly- they don't fade out slowly. Lotus LF4R-HO - outstanding dimming, but they never get very warm. The spec is 3000 k to 2000 k. But at the dimmest point, they looked pretty cool white. The Halo dimmed nicely - not as nice as the Lotus, but close. They are 2700 k at the brightest and dim to 1800 k. I don't think that is accurate - they get really warm when you dim them, almost a yellow-red color like a candle. In a log cabin or a 100+ year-old house, that color range would be perfect. But maybe too warm for my somewhat modern new construction. Also, the Halo are large 6" retrofit fixtures, where the Lotus and DMF are more modern 4" fixtures. To get the absolute best dimming from an LED, I believe you need to spend $200+ per fixure and use a more modern Dali LED driver to dim. Stuff like that is for commercial or really high-end residential. Sadly, not for me. Insteon impressions: I went ahead and bought the eisy just for testing. It's fine. It uses the software you are used to, but you lose ir control if that matters to you. I tested Insteon in what I would describe as a worst case scenario. It's in the new house that is under construction. The eisy and Wifi router are in the master bedroom, and I added one lamp dimmer in that room just to create a bit of a network. The other Insteon dimmer is about 100' away in the pool gazebo. It gets its power from the sub panel that powers the pool equipment. And it works! Insteon is owned by the passionate people who created it. For that reason, I believe the Insteon product line will outlast most others. Many big name companies are dabbling in smart switches, but how strong is their commitment? My personal investment into Insteon will be about $5000. If the company goes under the day after I install them, they will still work for 10 years - I plan to buy lots of spare switches. If, in two years, there truly is a better solution, then in my case the $5000 expense and time commitment isn't the end of the world, but the new thing would need to dazzle me! Even though Insteon is old, I can still control it with the brand new Alexa Hub. Plus, the Insteon product line is huge and very complete. For all those reasons, I think Insteon is best for me.

They do! https://domotinc.com/products/i3-keypad Thanks for the tip. ~Jay

I'm referring to the new i3 Keypad. I'll see if the people you linked can etch this one too. ~Jay

Thanks for your insight. I'm going to take a risk and stich the the devil I know. Have you looked at URC remotes? I still love my MX-780. URC is a bit hostile to the enthusiast community, but in my case, because I purchased through an authorized dealer who closed his business, they allowed me access to their programming software. With MX-780, I have 100% control over my remote. Every button does what I want it to do. Even though I had one break, I found a like new replacement on ebay for $19. ~Jay

That's a really good idea. I just hope Insteon will offer an etching service for their new 4-button switch soon. I decided to go with Insteon again but with a new Eisy - not to be confused with easy! haha. It's as if they try to make it difficult just to keep the riff raff out. I bought a few i3 devices to test out. I haven't installed them yet, but the feel and perceived build quality is outstanding. I'll add them to one of the rooms to test while the house is under construction. One thing that impressed me with Insteon was that I have one older switch in the Gazebo out by the pool which gets its power from the pool's sub panel. The Eisy is in the house 60 feet away an communicates perfectly with the gazebo. I decided that the risk to install Insteon is low. I think it's great that it's back in the hands of the enthusiasts who made it. It was, however, nice when Smart home had those incredible sales - that's when I would stock up on spare switches and expand my system. I don't even think the new Insteon had a black Friday sale. But the overall investment isn't too high. maybe $2500 in switches. I haven't added them all up yet. If I buy some spares, I'll be good to go for many years even if the company folds. ~Jay

My current house has an ISY 994 and it's working well with over 50 Insteon devices. I'm remodeling our new/future house and plan to use mostly all new Insteon devices with an Eisy controller. Can one Portal account handle both houses? I don't want to migrate or import anything, I want to start with a clean slate in the new house. What would you suggest? Buy a second portal account and and cancel the old one when I'm out of the old house, or can I use one account for both houses? Thanks, ~Jay

I should ask. What is the i3? Is it significantly different than the old stuff? ~Jay

Thanks Paul, That's really helpful information. I am keeping the same wife in the new house, so it's good that she already knows how to work the Insteon stuff. Actually, they are just switches, so there isn't really a learning curve, but either way, she'll appreciate the familiar look. I tend to be obsessed with gadgets and electronics, and my wife tends to be more Amish. haha. Even though Insteon is a bit of a risk, they have been around for a really long time and it all still works together. ~Jay

YES! In my current house, some of the switch plates are bulging. It looks terrible. The new house is 20 years old, but I'll be adding a lot to it and remodeling. I told the contractor to use deep boxes. I hope he understood. Thanks for your reply! what you say to wait, what are you waiting for? Is there a specific product that you have in mind? ~Jay

I have been using Insteon with a 994i for a very long time. Maybe 15 years? I don't even know how many Insteon devices I have, but maybe 50. Every light switch is Insteon, I have a main water valve controlled by Insteon and integrated with Insteon leak sensors. I use Kaypads, wireless remotes, and ir from my URC remote to control the lights. Through the 994ir I've had everything controlled by Alexa for many years too. I'm all in on Insteon. But for the new house, starting from scratch, is Insteon the way to go? Here's what I like: The switches feel good, and look good The switches are link together independently of the hub or internet. a switch can control a load, on just be a hard wired controller adjustable ramp rate While not perfect, communication only fails 1 out of a 1000 times - unless something is broken, then all bets are off. huge product line dimmers relays motion sensors keypads wireless remotes low voltage sensors and controls inline dimmers outdoor relay What I don't like is that the new ownership might fail and Insteon will go away, so I'll lose an investment $4000 and a lot of time. Also, the build quality of the Insteon products is hit or miss. What's the best solution? The Insteon feature set is hard to beat. Thanks! ~Jay

It worked! Thanks everyone I restored the outlet and now the button and the scene works. ~Jay

Thanks. I'd bet $1 that that's going to work ~Jay

Thanks, I'll try that. What exactly does "restore device" do?

Thanks for the reply. I did read about updating. I think I’ll wait until it’s an absolute need because it does look like a potential nightmare. For now, I’m just using an Alexa routine for the fountain timer. I don’t really need to button to work if Alexa can turn the fountain on and off. Tonight I’ll unplug the fountain and low-voltage lights and see if that solves the problem. I’d consider dumping Insteon and getting a fresh start with something more modern, but I can’t think of any viable replacements. Plus, replacing 40+ devices will be very time consuming and not cheap. Things Insteon has that I really like: keypads Insteon relay that I use to shut off the water main Insteon sensors to tell me if a door is open Insteon leak sensors that can shut off the main water line and notify me of a leak. The Insteon dual outlet clean IR integration with the 994ir wireless Insteon remote What other platform can do all that?~Jay

The firmware match, they are both 4.9.0 I might try to update it. ~Jay

I have a dual outlet 2663-222. The top is for a fountain, and the bottom is for low voltage lights. The bottom outlet works as expected, but the top one does not. I want the fountain to be part of a scene that responds to Alexa, an 8-button keypad, and an all lights off scene. When I press the button on the keypad, the admin console shows that the top outlet is ON, I press it again and it says OFF. But the outlet isn't actually responding. If I go directly to the device, I can turn it on and off. For now, I can use Alexa if I control the device directly, but not part of a scene. I did delete and create a new scene, but that didn't solve the problem. do you have any suggestions? Thanks, ~Jay

that worked. Deleting devices on the Alexa app is not very intuitive. But I figured it out, and it's working now. Jay

I have many scenes and devices all working well with Alexa. But one, called "Mater Bedroom", won't work. Alexa responds by saying "I had trouble communicating with provider. Check your device's connection and power supply." What's going on? What could be wrong with this scene? thanks, ~Jay

WOW! that's a lot for me to digest. Thanks for so much time and detail you gave. I'll baby-step my way into it. My first concern, is that version 5 is still in beta. But maybe it's stable enough now? My other concern is that my brain does not work like the brain of a typical computer programmer. I can barely create simple programs to make my lights do what I want! But, I use my Sonos every day, and it might be worth the effort to make it easier and more convenient for the whole family. One I'm ready to tackle this, I'll be back with many questions. thanks, ~Jay

I just learned that I can control Sonos with my Insteon Keypad. This is great news now that Sonos no longer supports their own controllers. I was able to use the Insteon hub to get some control, but it wasn't very reliable. In most cases, ISY does things better, as it should considering the enormous cost difference. I searched the forum, but I can't seem to grasp what steps are required to make Sonos control happen. The control I would like is: -play/pause button -volume up button -volume down button -skip button -favorite stations buttons Is this even possible on the ISY? As a bonus, it would be nice if I could also program my IR remote to control the Sonos through ISY and Insteon. thanks, ~Jay

thanks for the detailed instructions! I'll give it a try tonight when I get back home. I'm sure I'll have some followup questions. ~Jay

Now that I have the portal and Alexa working, I want to do this: When I'm ready to leave the house, I'll Say "Alexa, turn Away lights on." Then I'll open the front door, close it behind me, and leave. Later, when I return, I'll want the scene I call "mood" to turn on when I open the front door. Basically, Away tuns most of the lights off, and mood sets all the living room lights where I like them. How can I program this? I assume, I'll need to have the return home program be triggered by the door sensor. In that case, the program will need to ignore the door sensor for a short period of time until after I leave the the house. Otherwise, as soon as I open the door to leave, the lights will turn back to mood. Thanks, ~Jay

So I bought the portal. It's more steps than I like, but it's works REALLY well! Now I need help with a new program... maybe it deserves it's own thread... I create a new one. thanks! ~Jay

thanks for the heads up. I'll let you know how this progresses. ~Jay

So I decided to take the easy way out. Amazon has the Hub + 2 lamp modules for $48. The setup was really fast and easy. I really wish UDI could make the ISY so easy to use. It took less than an hour to install and set up the Hub, drill and mount 2 hidden door senors, add and place 4 leak sensors. It took a few minutes to figure out how to get notifications to my Apple Watch without also getting email, but it's done. It took about 30 minutes to get Alexa to turn on my kitchen lights using the Hub. I wasn't sure if having Echo integration was worth the hassle, but I got goose bumps the first time I was able to speak and see light turn on! Now I can see the benefit of having the Echo work with the ISY because of all the scenes that have been so carefully created. The Amazon echo scenes kind of reminded me of the old X10 days where one light at a time would respond. So I think I'll continue to use the Hub for notifications, and then try to figure out the ISY for Echo integration. One shortcoming of the Hub is that it is really difficult to get old devices to work with it. I don't mind its limitations for how cheap it is and how easy and fast it is to set up, but it really should work at least as well with older devices as the ISY does. ~Jay