smorgasbord

Well, that sucks.

Just wanted to point out that Belkin's recent termination of WeMo support AND cloud service shows us exactly why completely local control and local setup is needed. I set up a lighting automation system last century, yes in the 1990s. Although the company (LiteTouch) is no longer around, I'm still able to not only keep the system running, but to add new devices and capabilities to it since it's all programmed and run locally. Cloud is great for monitoring/controlling away from home, but the in-house stuff always need to work as long as the hardware lasts.

Aren't there things one needs to do to set up to run locally, beyond just using the local-capable hub? I recall seeing something about automations, but can't find it now. Also, if one is running two hubs (for distance), then what happens when the internet goes out? thanks!

I am using UD Mobile on my iPhone and it is up to date. Don't see anything in Notifications that isn't from my debugging set ups. The UD Web Interface seems OK, too. Polyglot is fine now, too. It seemed that maybe something was going on after the update/reboot that consumed the CPU and so I got that message. Eventually the something ended and all seems just fine now, thanks.

Just to expound a bit more. Velux now ships all skylights with remote-operated shades. So, when you get a skylight that also opens, you end up with two bulky square remotes - one for the skylight open/close and one for the shade up/down. Now, you can buy a touchscreen remote from Velux that can be programmed to choose and control multiple items, BUT (and this is a big problem) the top-level menu is to choose Skylight Control or Shade Control. So, if you're in a room and want to close the skylight AND lower the shade on that same skylight you've got a lot of clicking to do: 1) Select Skylights 2) Select the Group or Skylight 3) Close 4) Return to Main 5) Select Shades 6) Select the Group or Skylight (hopefully you created the same groups and/or renumbered the shades the same way) 7) Lower I'd rather have a single Insteon I3 keypad with 4 buttons - top 2 for open/close, bottom 2 for raise/lower. That requires the internet interface to the KLF and some programming, which has been done for Home Assistant but not for EISY. I've got 14 skylights, 8 of which open, so this is kind of a big deal for me.

OK, so did the backup, and upgraded Java as well. Rebooted and things looked fine, so I did the update, got a prompt to reboot and did so. Logged in and looked around a bit, then rebooted manually as you suggested. Seemed fine, but when I went into Polyglot, I had some trouble logging in, eventually did but then got logged out right away with this message: Retried it a few times, and eventually got in. So far things seem to be working normally again now, but that was a little bit weird.

OK, here's the KLF documentation. KLF API technical specification for klf 200 api-ver3-18.pdf

Thanks, this is what I'm running now: ************ IoX ************ isy-5.9.1_7 Name: isy Version: 5.9.1_7 Installed on: Thu Feb 27 14:25:50, 2025 PST Origin: misc/isy Architecture: FreeBSD 14:amd64 later on it says: FreeBSD_version: 1401000 So, I don't think I'm too out of date.

That's correct. For me, I don't have Home Assistant set up - I use EISY (with my old LiteTouch system for lighting) exclusively. So, this would mean learning yet another system (Home Assistant), figuring out what hardware to buy, load and set things up, and then integrate the KLF200. Certainly do-able, but I'm not looking forward to setting up a third home automation system in my home.

I have a bunch of Insteon and YoLink devices connected through Eisy and the YoLink plug-in. I'm now adding a 5 skylights to be controlled. I just figured out the contact closure end of things, but the Velux integration hub does NOT report the state of the skylight. Since the skylight can be controlled not just through Eisy, but also directly through Velux's remotes or the Velux App, I can't just track the commands Eisy sends. YoLink has a door & window sensor: https://shop.yosmart.com/collections/door-sensors/products/ys7704 for $17. Insteon has one for $40 https://www.insteon.com/products/open-close-sensor The problem I have with both of them is that the skylights have screens that don't move. So I'd have to put one piece (say the magnet) on the moving skylight window frame, and other piece just inside the fixed frame on the other side of the screen. I'm worried that even when closed the distance between the two pieces will be too large and the sensor will always report open. Any thoughts on either sensor's ability to span, say, ½" of distance with a metal frame in between and still report closed? YoLink's contact sensor that uses a small magnet and the sensor is also small, connected with a short wire to a battery pack. I've used that on my front gate, but it requires the magnet and sensor be able to be very close to register closed, so i don't think that'll work and while the thing is outdoor rated, don't really want to mount it outside the skylight due to battery replacement concerns. Insteon also has a single piece plunger-operated door sensor, but I can't drill a hole deep enough in the skylight for that to work. Maybe the best idea is the YoLink Garage Door sensor, which I think can tell when the tilt changes. Given my skylights are on an angled roof it may be that when they're open they're horizontal enough to report as "closed", but I could invert the logic in Eisy. Anyone try anything like this?

Follow-up to my own post - I got the KLF200 to work. On the web configuration, there's a page where you can assign product(s) to input wires: You can't see it here, but on the 5/6 input pair I've got two window openers controlled (would have to click the wheel to see and change that). But, there's also a "Channel" selector. By default, it's using Channel 3, which is "normal operation," but it looks like I could select 4,5,6,or 7 to get different operation behaviors. That might be a way to have more than 5 controls, but it wouldn't be useful for most things as if you can open a skylight you'd also want to be able to close it. Anyway, I can now use relays in Eisy (Insteon or whatever) to open/close my skylights.

I'm an EISY user (previously 994i) using a mix of Insteon and YoLink modules. I haven't done anything with the system in over a year, since everything is working. I just had to replace a bunch of Velux skylights, and so now have new items to control. In the interim, it appears from my reading: https://www.universal-devices.com/2025-liftoff/ That there's a new non-Java Admin UI as well as HomeKit support. I've looked but can't find the how-to/getting started pages for those features. Can someone point me at documentation for both? Oh, and I guess updating my software as well. thanks!

The KLF200 can handle only 5 devices/scenes/groups that require up/down or open/close control. There are only 10 input contact closure wires after all. The default is that when you pair a skylight, one wire opens and the next wire closes it. So with 10 wires that gets you to 5. Now, instead of controlling a single device, there is the concept of groups. You can program a single Velux remote (KLI) to control multiple skylights or multiple shades. One set of KLF200 wires can control that whole group as well, but not the items in that group independently.

I did call Velux and luckily got the most knowledgable tech support person there, who begrudgingly sent me the KLF interface document (KLF API technical specification for klf 200 api-ver3-18.pdf). I could upload that here, if anyone wants to take a look (warning: using it is not supported by Velux, so don't expect any help on it). It's got a mix of easy stuff like using the reset buttons, and then the Cat-5 connection for things, too. My problem is that there are a limited number of "pockets" for holding keys in each skylight or blind, and there aren't enough pockets to have the simple remote that ships with the skylight AND the App Gateway AND the KLF200 contact driven Gateway. So, to use the KLF200 I have to reset the skylights and not use Velux's App anymore. So, at this point my best solution might be to not use the KLF200 and instead use the Velux App and then connect that to Apple's HomeKit. If I do that, can I send/receive HomeKit messages to/from my EISY? Does that makes sense?

New roof forced me to replace my Velux skylights, so now I have to deal with the new interfaces Velux supports. There appear to be two options: 1) Get an KLF 200 and use contact closure. At a discounted $225 for 5 things (skylight with shade is 2 things), that gets expensive quickly. 2) Support the io-homecontrol interface. This is apparently supported via Home Assistant, but I use eisy instead. Has anyone taken this up? I couldn't find in in Polyglot.

Yes, but those can only appear in the program IF construct, not as branching lines inside a program. And as I pointed out in the first post here, that IF block is auto-executed when the parameters inside it change (assuming it's not all INTEGER variables). You can force an IF to be executed via the RunIf() call, but then you've got two programs running essentially simultaneously, not in a single execution thread. BTW, I'm not complaining about the programming model, just asking questions, gaining knowledge and pointing out differences with "standard" programming models. I suspect I'm not the first "regular" programmer to come into this world. The ISY/EISY programming model makes sense given Automation is almost always a set of things to do when triggered by an event (which could include a time event), so I understand why these choices were made. My only real complaint is that the program debugging tools could be better. You can see current values of STATE and INTEGER variables (but not on the same screen at the same time), and you can see which programs are currently running, and now with the Notification Polyglot plug-in you can at least get a rudimentary "printf" type output to track what was run and what the variables were at that time, but there's no step-thru debugger, call log stack, etc.

I just wanted to come back and clarify that I had the terminology backwards. That is "re-entrant" means the program restarts (re-enters?) when called again. So, the programming model is re-entrant and the behavior I quoted above is what happens. That said, there apparently is no call stack and everything called appears to run in its own context/instance/thread/process. So, for us old C programmers, calling a subroutine means that subroutine starts to run, but the calling routine also continues to run, so there are no guarantees which thing in which routine gets called first. So, this is somewhat like parallel programming.

Since I'm also using YoLink devices, I don't have a need for my old ISY994i. I suppose I should just sell it on eBay?

OK, I guess the question is now that I've got a new one from the Insteon folks, should I get my older one refurbished/rebuilt so that I have a spare for the future? I did get another serial one just to keep my cabling intact.

OK @paulbates, got my new PLM and installed it, following @Techman's instructions. Went smoothly. And so far, all my insteon devices are working. Which means that outlet I replaced and chewed up in the process was probably still good after all. Is there any reason to keep my defective serial 2413S PLM, or toss it out with the outdated 2412S?

OK, I just ordered a new PLM. I'll report back when I get it. Thanks!

So, I have an old, barely used, PLM that is pre-dual band. It's labeled as an EZICOMM 5010K and called a "Insteon RS232/RS485 Adapter", but on the back the label reads: 2233-233 V1.7 1225 Is this a good-enough PLM for me to try it out, following the replacement instructions? I think I'll lose whatever RF the 2413S has, but I've got other dual band devices in the house. Might be worth trying before ordering a new PLM completely, no?

OK, and in trying to decide which PLM version to get. Since I've already spent the money on the special serial cable for the EISY, should I get the serial PLM. Or is it worth digging up a USB cable and getting a USB version of the PLM? USB to serial converters are well-known technology and I've been using a serial to USB converter for another application for a couple decades now....

I'm confused now. One set of instructions is for ISY only, the other for both, sort-of, and weird: Unplug ISY from the power outlet Unplug the PLM from EISY/POLISY and power outlet Connect the EISY/POLISY to the new PLM Plug the new PLM into a power outlet Plug ISY into a power outlet I'm also in a different situation since my ISY is in my desk drawer and I'm running EISY on my old PLM - following steps 1, 3, 4 and then instead of 5, plugging in my EISY. I don't understand step 2 at all - was my ISY plugged in but not usuing the PLM? Why would I ever have both plugged in at the same time? This is suggesting I have both the ISY and EISY plugged in. And if that's really so, to which unit am I connecting via the Launcher? And I'm also confused on backing up the programming vs Restore PLM / Delete PLM when there's no Backup PLM. I'm not sure why I need my old ISY anymore to replace the PLM I'm already running EISY on (and mostly working, just some devices sometimes can't be communicated with). If it matters, my ISY is a ISY-994i/IR. It doesn't say "PRO" so I'm guessing it's not a PRO version. I am lucky in that right now I'm down to only one battery-powered device (a motion sensor). Everything else is hardwired. I recently removed a motion sensor, replacing it with a YoLink one. Again, sorry for my confusion.

OK, some final questions then From where should I order a new PLM - shop.insteon.com? My PLM is within 5' of the EISY, but I already have the proper cable. Is the USB PLM somehow better/future proofed than keeping the serial? I do have a backup from my ISY, but I've made major changes to the programming since then. I'm unsure as to the order of backing up and restoring, here's my best guess, using the Admin Console: Backup my current EISY programming Restore the last ISY programming to the EISY on the old PLM Backup the PLM to a file using the Admin Console Replace the PLM with the new one Restore the PLM from the file Restore the EISY programming Does that sound right?