smorgasbord

Yes, but those can only appear in the program IF construct, not as branching lines inside a program. And as I pointed out in the first post here, that IF block is auto-executed when the parameters inside it change (assuming it's not all INTEGER variables). You can force an IF to be executed via the RunIf() call, but then you've got two programs running essentially simultaneously, not in a single execution thread. BTW, I'm not complaining about the programming model, just asking questions, gaining knowledge and pointing out differences with "standard" programming models. I suspect I'm not the first "regular" programmer to come into this world. The ISY/EISY programming model makes sense given Automation is almost always a set of things to do when triggered by an event (which could include a time event), so I understand why these choices were made. My only real complaint is that the program debugging tools could be better. You can see current values of STATE and INTEGER variables (but not on the same screen at the same time), and you can see which programs are currently running, and now with the Notification Polyglot plug-in you can at least get a rudimentary "printf" type output to track what was run and what the variables were at that time, but there's no step-thru debugger, call log stack, etc.

I just wanted to come back and clarify that I had the terminology backwards. That is "re-entrant" means the program restarts (re-enters?) when called again. So, the programming model is re-entrant and the behavior I quoted above is what happens. That said, there apparently is no call stack and everything called appears to run in its own context/instance/thread/process. So, for us old C programmers, calling a subroutine means that subroutine starts to run, but the calling routine also continues to run, so there are no guarantees which thing in which routine gets called first. So, this is somewhat like parallel programming.

Since I'm also using YoLink devices, I don't have a need for my old ISY994i. I suppose I should just sell it on eBay?

OK, I guess the question is now that I've got a new one from the Insteon folks, should I get my older one refurbished/rebuilt so that I have a spare for the future? I did get another serial one just to keep my cabling intact.

OK @paulbates, got my new PLM and installed it, following @Techman's instructions. Went smoothly. And so far, all my insteon devices are working. Which means that outlet I replaced and chewed up in the process was probably still good after all. Is there any reason to keep my defective serial 2413S PLM, or toss it out with the outdated 2412S?

OK, I just ordered a new PLM. I'll report back when I get it. Thanks!

So, I have an old, barely used, PLM that is pre-dual band. It's labeled as an EZICOMM 5010K and called a "Insteon RS232/RS485 Adapter", but on the back the label reads: 2233-233 V1.7 1225 Is this a good-enough PLM for me to try it out, following the replacement instructions? I think I'll lose whatever RF the 2413S has, but I've got other dual band devices in the house. Might be worth trying before ordering a new PLM completely, no?

OK, and in trying to decide which PLM version to get. Since I've already spent the money on the special serial cable for the EISY, should I get the serial PLM. Or is it worth digging up a USB cable and getting a USB version of the PLM? USB to serial converters are well-known technology and I've been using a serial to USB converter for another application for a couple decades now....

I'm confused now. One set of instructions is for ISY only, the other for both, sort-of, and weird: Unplug ISY from the power outlet Unplug the PLM from EISY/POLISY and power outlet Connect the EISY/POLISY to the new PLM Plug the new PLM into a power outlet Plug ISY into a power outlet I'm also in a different situation since my ISY is in my desk drawer and I'm running EISY on my old PLM - following steps 1, 3, 4 and then instead of 5, plugging in my EISY. I don't understand step 2 at all - was my ISY plugged in but not usuing the PLM? Why would I ever have both plugged in at the same time? This is suggesting I have both the ISY and EISY plugged in. And if that's really so, to which unit am I connecting via the Launcher? And I'm also confused on backing up the programming vs Restore PLM / Delete PLM when there's no Backup PLM. I'm not sure why I need my old ISY anymore to replace the PLM I'm already running EISY on (and mostly working, just some devices sometimes can't be communicated with). If it matters, my ISY is a ISY-994i/IR. It doesn't say "PRO" so I'm guessing it's not a PRO version. I am lucky in that right now I'm down to only one battery-powered device (a motion sensor). Everything else is hardwired. I recently removed a motion sensor, replacing it with a YoLink one. Again, sorry for my confusion.

OK, some final questions then From where should I order a new PLM - shop.insteon.com? My PLM is within 5' of the EISY, but I already have the proper cable. Is the USB PLM somehow better/future proofed than keeping the serial? I do have a backup from my ISY, but I've made major changes to the programming since then. I'm unsure as to the order of backing up and restoring, here's my best guess, using the Admin Console: Backup my current EISY programming Restore the last ISY programming to the EISY on the old PLM Backup the PLM to a file using the Admin Console Replace the PLM with the new one Restore the PLM from the file Restore the EISY programming Does that sound right?

I did the unplug/replug PLM, but note I did it when upgrading to the EISY also. This time when rebooting the EISY I got a different device as not connecting (an IOLinc, which is dual-band). Also, I almost never get the same problems - different units are reporting as not connecting at different start ups. Sometimes while running, too, iirc. I have an outdoor outlet that I use as my bridge, not an Access Point, sorry. I just did the 4 tap test on it and the PLM was blinking green only. Some of the devices reporting as missing as battery powered (motion sensors). The Admin Console has options for backing and restoring the PLM. I've never done that. Should I reset the PLM? Not sure how the EISY uses it or anything it might hold, settings-wise. Here's the back of my PLM,

Upgraded my ISY-994i to eisy and things mostly work. However, on reboot I often get some pop-up error messages in the Admin Console: Cannot communicate With <<name of the sensor (6-digit Insteon address)>>. Please check connections. This is an intermittent problem. It happens to both battery powered and wired devices, including dual-band devices. My home isn't large, I do have an Access Point setup to bridge the electrical. Could I have a bad PLM? It's several years old (2413S). I have an older EXICOMM 5010K that I think is actually 2412S. When I upgraded from ISY to EISY I followed the steps (used a new cable bought with the EISY) which did not involve backing up or restoring anything on the PLM. Am I right to suspect the PLM? If so, what's my best fix? There are new ones being sold somewhere, right? TIA

What's the procedure for when I've added/removed YoLink devices? Just restart from the Polyglot Dashboard and then reboot the EISY?

Yes, I understand that part, which is why I think of a program's "If" condition as a "When" condition. Instead of: "if a control is switched on," I think: "When a control is switched on." That help me, might or might not help others. What I was talking about, and have since figured out, is about how the execution/call stack works. Turns out the ISY/EISY does NOT have a stack. When a first program calls a second program, that second program starts and runs in its own "instance" or "context" (to use C programmer nomenclature). More importantly, the first program does not stop and wait for the second program to finish and "return" to the first program. Instead, both programs are now running simultaneously (or as close as the OS can support). BTW, using the Notification plug-in to send numerous notifications to my UD Mobile app revealed a lot to me about how programs run on the EISY.

Motion sensors set to ON Commands only, and there are no programs looking for a "switched Off." I also have about a 5 minute time-out so the motion sensor isn't constantly sending commands.

OK, I ended up with 2 variables and 4 programs: RecirRanRecently: An integer (not state) that is True (1) if pump has recently run sOnVacay: A state variable that is True if we've set a Vacation Mode, which stops the pump from running automatically and turns lights on/off semi-randomly. Repeat Loop(): A "Repeat While" loop that asks to run the Pump every 35 minutes. Started at 7am and stopped at 10:30pm. Bathroom Motion(): When the Motion Sensor detects motion, asks to run the Pump Run If(): If Pump hasn't been run in last 15 minutes, runs the Pump routine Run Once(): The routine that runs the pump. Only the "THEN" block is called and only from Run If(), so the Waits don't get interrupted. Uses $RecirRanRecently variable to prevent Run If() from calling it when it shouldn't. Runs pump for 1.75 minutes and then Waits for 13.25 minutes. Run Once: If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then $RecirRanRecently = 1 Set 'Recir Pump' On Wait 1 minute and 45 seconds Set 'Recir Pump' Off Wait 13 minutes and 15 seconds $RecirRanRecently = 0 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') —— Run If: If $RecirRanRecently is not 1 Then Run Program 'Run Once' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') —— Bathroom Motion: If 'Bathroom Motion-Sensor' is switched On And $sOnVacay is not 1 And $RecirRanRecently is not 1 Then Run Program 'Run If' (If) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') —— Repeat Loop: If From 6:59:00AM To 10:31:00PM (same day) And $sOnVacay is not 1 Then Repeat While $sOnVacay is not 1 Run Program 'Run If' (If) Wait 35 minutes Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Run If() has two Waits that combine for a 15 minute minimum time period between successive pump runs. The Repeat Loop() program only asks for pump runs every 35 minutes. Motion in the bathroom will ask for a pump run if the 15 minute minimum time has elapsed. While Repeat Loop() only runs during waking hours, motion in the bathroom at any time can run the pump. I thought about trying to reduce this to 3 programs instead of 4, but since Repeat Loop() might ask for a pump run soon after a Bathroom Motion requested and granted pump run I think it's needed. If we could compound the While clause of the Repeat instruction, such as: Repeat While ( ($sOnVacay is not 1) AND (sRecirRanRecently is not 1) ) Which isn't possible as I understand it. I could maybe create a third variable and have it be the sum of those two variables, and then have Repeat While ThirdVariable is 0, but I don't know about addition and of an integer and a state. Thoughts/ideas welcome.

RecirRanRecently is not a State variable, so the IF isn't re-evaluated. Isn't convention to put a lower-case "s" in front of State variable names? I'm trying new program logic now, where I have double-stacked routines to perform the test and then the run. I'll post here in a little bit if it looks like it's working.

I just ran into a related issue with a hot water recirculating pump routine. I wanted movement in a bathroom to run the pump for 2 minutes to get the hot water into the pipes. But, if the pump has been recently run (say 15 minutes), it shouldn't run because it's wasteful. So, I wrote this program: If 'Bathroom Motion-Sensor' is switched On And $RecirRanRecently is not 1 Then $RecirRanRecently = 1 Set 'Recir Pump' On Wait 2 minutes Set 'Recir Pump' Off Wait 13 minutes $RecirRanRecently = 0 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Now, given that there is no Reentrancy and no Call Stack, I understand why it fails, but don't know the best way to fix. The first time through it works. And the second time through it'll work, too. But, if that second time is rejected for being too soon (RecirRanRecently is 1), then first instance is terminated at one of the two Waits, and so RecirRanRecently is never reset to 0. And so the pump would never run again until reboot initializes RecirRanRecently to 0. EDIT: I'm not using the time-out in the motion sensor hardware because I have another program that runs the pump on timed intervals (every half hour) and it uses the same RecirRanRecently variable in an attempt to get this motion program to not run soon after the timer program rang What's the best way to accomplish this?

I'm slowly groking how EISY/ISY programming works. My first learning was that If-Then-Else is really When-Then-Else. That is the If() block is called when something inside it changes (assuming your variables, if any, are State and not Integer). The second was that programs are not re-entrant. If a program is called while it is still running, that first "instance" will terminate at the next Wait or Repeat line. No passing Go or collecting $200 - the rest of that program won't be called. Instead the new "instance" of the program runs. After instrumenting my code with lots of UD Mobile notifications, I'm seeing that if in MyProgram1 you have: Run Program 'MyProgram2' (If) Then MyProgram2 will run the If block and execute either Then or Else...BUT The execution of MyProgram1 does NOT wait for MyProgram2 to finish executing. It's not on a Call Stack, it's just you have multiple programs running simultaneously. I assume this is the same whether calling the (If) or (Then) or (Else) blocks directly. If I'm correct, this means that I can't use this mechanism to have subroutines. Which I'd really like to have since it prevents duplicating the same code in multiple programs. So, my real question is: How to have subroutines? TIA NOTE: Edited this post to correct the terminology. The behavior is as described and that is what is called "re-entrant."

So combination of enabling IPv6 on my router and @Techman's MMS.ATT.NET make text messages work! At least until I over use it and get blocked by ATT I guess. Thanks! Now onto groking the programming model.

I have thought that the "If" statement should actually be a "When" statement to help programmers understand the program invocation process. But, maybe that's just me.

I have my Water Depth Sensor set to update every 30 minutes. But, I don't see anything from it in the log file because it's not one of the added/known devices. Is there something i need to do/enable/load to get that to happen? FWIW, here's a screenshot from the YoLink app on one of my depth sensors (I have two).

After a few go-rounds trying different things with support, it looks like I did not have IPv6 enabled in my router. Enabling that seems to have gotten regular email notifications to work, although the ATT Wireless (9876543210@txt.att.net) email to SMS still fails. That's probably ATT's fault.

Yeah, the Captcha is only for submitting a new ticket. And maybe it's only for the first ticket one submits.

Thanks for that, but this Captcha thing isn't in the Admin Console, it's on UD's ticket website.