franzmetcalf

Good idea: I'll tape the toggles. And I love your last phrase: it's so 21st century. It almost sounds like a spiritual aspiration.

lilyoyo1, as it turns out, I went back into the basement today for unrelated reasons, and I noticed a couple of previously ignored toggle switches in the box in which my new device sits. Just for fun I decided to toggle them the opposite way and use the new switch to try to turn on the lights. Darned if they didn't come on! What the heck those toggles are doing there, I don't know. And why I have this giant box I don't know, either. I reckon the installer put it there for future-proofing ten years ago. Oh, and why were the toggles toggled off? Again, no idea, but I'm pretty confident the lights will come on at sunset +10 minutes, this evening. Bottom line: simplest possible fix, ignored until every other possibility was exhausted. Typical! Franz

Sorry to rudely be bumping my own thread, but does perhaps sound like a hardware issues to you all? Hardware or software, I'd love a point toward a solution. Thanks, Franz

Thanks, lilyoyo1, I have a very simple setup with my PLM connecting to two exterior lighting areas. "East Yard Down Lights" is controlled by one dimmer switch. "Stairs, Landing, and Pergola" is controlled by the new switch I just installed, which is, in turn, controlled by "Front Keypad" with six buttons, which I also just installed. There is only one program. To be clear, "East Yard Down Lights" does come on; "Stairs, Landing, Pergola" does not. But perhaps a couple of pictures are worth a couple thousand words...

Hi all, I recently replaced a six button controller (seemingly successfully) and a responding simple non-dimming switch (also seemingly successfully). Everything seems to check out fine using the admin console. I can query the system and it looks good. All the links check out and communication between my PLM and all the devices, including the new ones, seems fine. The console even tells me I can successfully use the program to turn my exterior lights on and off. But...in reality, only some scenes in my system turn on at night. The scenes associated with my new switch (2477s) do not turn on, neither by the program, nor manually. I'm stumped and I have this feeling I'm neglecting something crushingly obvious. Can anyone suggest what that might be or some way to further diagnose the situation? Thanks, Franz

An update: I just went to the basement to check the device and found out to my embarrassment that it's a 2476S, yes S, not D. So it's a non-dimming switch. Sheesh, I am an idiot. Don't know why it reports as a 2876S, but it doesn't matter. I bought the wrong device and have no dimming on that part of my landscape lighting. Fine. I shall try to embrace EricK's viewpoint!

LeeG, I can add the device in the way you mention, but it adds as a 2876S. I did save the log when attempting to do so. I've searched it for 2476, 2876, 0x01, 0x02, and so on. None of those strings appear in the log, so I can't figure out how to interpret what device type is reporting in the log. The Insteon address is correct. That said, the "new" 2476D is not new. Bought it from eBay, pulled from a home. I believe I'll have to contact the seller. Should have forked over the $50 and bought a new one, it seems.

Hi all, Success! My new PLM arrived and it was pretty much plug and play, immediately communicating with my devices. So the old PLM died during the process of installing and setting up the new 2476D dimmer. Two simultaneous problems were what led to my confusion. Okay, honestly only partial success. I still have one problem: the new dimmer is being recognized by the ISY as a 2876S Icon On/Off Switch v.2C. I've deleted the device and added it back several times. Same result. I've been adding it via the "New Device" method. Even when I specify the device type as a 2476D, the app immediately relabels it a 2876S and refuses to implement dimming. To be clear, the device works, but just as a switch, not a dimmer. I've attempted to use its paddle to dim the lights manually, but this just turns the lights off. I suspect it's a bad 2476D that has lost its dimming function and thus defaults in the system to a simple on/off switch. Does that make sense? If so, I'll perhaps replace it. Either that or take EricK's advice and just let it switch on the lights at full.

The 99i supports the new 2476D that is replacing the old 2476D, so that doesn't explain the problem. But it is clear that I'm going to have to upgrade, eventually, to a 994. Still, with my very simple system, I'd prefer to keep the 99i as long as it's functioning, which I think it is as the Admin console tells me. It seems more likely it's the PLM that's gone down. It's statistically unlikely that it failed right when I was replacing and trying to link a dimmer, but it's certainly possible that that proved too much for its venerable circuitry. I'll let it sit and plug it in tomorrow and see if things have changed. Is the upgrade price to the 994 a really great deal? Meanwhile, my own venerable circuitry needs dinner. It's carnitas tostadas and the Oscars! (Very Angeleno.) Thanks for all your help in this troublshooting. I'll update things tomorrow. Oh, and EricK, I'm not sure why the installer put in the dimming function for landscape lighting, but now that's it's in, I find that I like the downlights at about 60% while the porch lights and pergola lights are at 100%, so for me it's worth getting this thing working again. Otherwise, to dim the downlights I'd have to go to the basement and the side yard every night. And I'd have to remember to turn them on at night and off in the morning. As I say, I'm too venerable for that!

@Brian: It's a 99i. Let me see if I can test as you suggest... Okay, we have a failed test. It's in a loop, returning the same failure notice. I quit it. What does this tell us? @Stu: Ah, I see you're in LA. So am I. That explains the rain—and thank goodness for it, blessed rain from heaven! Okay, back to my little troubles: the PLM is way past two years. Let's see, it says 2413S V1.0 0931 And my two Access Points say 2443 V2.1 1005 But the thing is that all these seemed to be functioning fine, yesterday. The chance that the whole network gave out at exactly the same time I messed with my ISY settings while installing a new SwitchLinc seems vanishingly small. I think I broke the network via software. I perhaps need to review the PLM manuals (thus far I've been looking at the ISY and SwitchLinc manuals). One bit of information: the ISY, with the PLM disconnected from both the network and power, still just has its power light on. According to the manual, it should have its RX light on. I will plug the PLM back in, as the manual suggests. Hmm, the PLM's LED light flashes just briefly as I plug in the PLM, then goes out and stays out. This does not seem right, contrary to my intuition that the problem is software related. Plugging and unplugging, the ISY lights do not change. Something is clearly wrong with one or both of the ISY and the PLM.

I have only these three devices; they run landscape lighting. It is a very modest little system. The devices are all seemingly working in terms of allowing the lights to work, but not in communicating with the ISY through the PLM network. "Write Updates to Device" goes through its progress bars, but nothing changes. This is so for all three devices. Yet the devices are functioning. I can turn all the lights on using the KeypadLinc (meaning those associated directly with it and those associated with the two SwitchLinc dimmers). I say this because it's now raining and I'm reluctant to go outside and test the wiring if the lights are clearly working. To me it seems as if the trouble is not in the three exterior devices, themselves, but in the PLM communication. I can't seem to find a way to test the PLM network, itself.

Stu, I did not do anything physically to the two existing devices (one KeypadLinc, one SwitchLinc); the third device I replaced. I've checked and the IDs for the first two devices are correct. The ID on the new SwitchLinc needs to change to the new SwitchLinc's ID. I've tried entering the IDs using the "New Insteon Device" function. On the existing two devices, the program simply flashes back to the Ready screen, possibly because those device are already linked. On the new device, the program slowly goes through the first 6% of a progress bar of adding the device, then gives me the error "Cannot determine Insteon engine." Here is some information from Diagnostics: • The PLM status shows "13.26.77 v92 / Connected" • PLM links table goes through a progress bar to 14% then stops and show a blank window. • For the two existing devices, "Show Device Links Table" returns "Failed reading device link" • For the new SwitchLinc the same test returns "Subscriber didn't reply to event" and "Failed reading device link" • Show ISY Links Table reuturns information I can share if it's important. The two existing devices' IDs appear. That's the latest.

Strange to me that the dimmer works upstream of the transformer. But that explains why you need the transformer to be designed to work in that manner. Anyway, in my case it is. Stu, yes, there are ! marks next to the devices. Sounds like that means something to you, which sounds good to me. The system was installed while we owned the home, but I had little to do with it and, at the time, my computer could not run the ISY Admin app, so I wasn't trained on it and am having to figure it out, now. Thus my ignorance.

Stu, thanks for the explanation of the relationship of the KeypadLinc and the SwitchLinc. I've just tested from the KeypadLinc and it does, indeed, control the whole scene. Which is nice because it can now be on when my wife comes home. Always good to please the wife! Starting up the ISY Admin utility, I get error windows for each of the three devices: "Cannot communicate with "[Device name here]" Then it gives the address of the device. Then it tells me to check connection. If I choose a device, go to Diagnostics, and click "Device Links Table," I get another error: "Failed reading device link" [-200000/-5]" and "Subscriber didn't reply to event: 1 [28]" On the other hand, choosing "Show Device Links Table" returns a table. And "Query Insteon Engine" just clicks back to the main page in less than a second. "Checking PLM Communication" returns a failure stating "This device does not support PLM communication settings." Does that clarify anything?

Stu, as I'm not home I can't do this now, but I promise I will. I really don't think the receptacle for the transformer is switched, though. I think I just misled you. But if it's not switched, I don't know how the KeypadLinc turns off all the landscape lights. The "scene of concern" is now all the scenes, as the ISY no longer is communicating with any of the three devices. I clearly created this situation while trying to link the new 2476D. I reckon I'll put the ISY into linking mode and go out and press the power on the three devices and see if that restores the links.

Hmm, the SwitchLinc dimmer worked for years as set up, so it probably was set up correctly and I'm just describing the situation incorrectly. The SwitchLinc is wired right into the house wiring, upstream of the transformer powering the lights the SwitchLinc dims. There is another SwitchLinc dimming other lights. And there is a KeypadLinc that can turn the whole exterior scene on and off, the scene being comprised of the lights the two SwitchLincs dim. I have not messed with the KeypadLinc, only one of the SwitchLinc dimmers. The scenes the second SwitchLinc dimmed have continued to work properly (though now they won't, as I've somehow broken the communication between the ISY and all three devices). I didn't realize you could get a KeypadLinc with a dimmer. Seems that the installer should have just done that. Perhaps they didn't exist five years ago.

I think so, Stu, though I understand all this very dimly (haha, I bet no one has ever made that joke here before; not). There's a KeypadLinc that can turn all three scenes of the landscape lighting off and on. There are also two other devices, both 2476D dimmers. I'm away from the house right now, so can't verify this, but I recall that each one of these dims one of the scenes. So I figure the KeypadLinc is there for manual control of the lighting. The dimmers are there for, well, dimming. And the ISY is there for programming the automatic on/off, currently set for sunset/2:00am. Netiquette question: Now that the dimmer is installed and powered up, I've run into/created a new problem where the ISY is not communicating with, at first, the new dimmer and now with all the devices (the two dimmers and the KeyLinc). Should I start a new thread on this in the Insteon Communications Issues forum or continue here? Meanwhile, I'm trying to diagnose via the wiki flowchart.

Stusviews and Brian, thanks for bearing with me. I think I finally understand the SwitchLinc's line/load alteration. Following Stusviews latest post, I'm going to back to the basement to wire in the SwitchLinc. The home neutral and the SwitchLinc neutral I will wire-nut together, along with a third, short length of white wire that will go to the transformer receptacle. Meanwhile, the home's line/black wire gets wire-nutted to the SwitchLinc line/black wire. And then the SwitchLinc load/red wire goes into the transformer's line/black receptacle. Looking back, I note that Stu explicitly stated the SwitchLinc's load/red line connects to the transformer's line/black line. It just didn't compute, yesterday. It all seems obvious now, but I could not figure it out from the SwitchLinc 2476D manuals I found online. Oh, and I hear you on the seeming redundancy of the dimmer and the switch. The switch does control these lights, as well as some others, but it won't dim them as it's a KeypadLinc. So the switch and the dimmer both need to stay (there must also somewhere be another dimmer for the other lights this dimmer and transformer do not control). Oh, and, again, I've contacted the transformer manufacturer and the unit is designed to be used with leading edge dimmers, so it's safe. Thanks so much!

EricK, yes, the transformer's power comes from an outlet. Perhaps the reason the installer used the dimmer here is that the switch is in another location (at the front door), whereas the transformer is in the basement. In fact, I almost never use the switch, just relying on the ISY99i programming to turn on the lights at sunset. I have a couple of appliancelincs in the house, but they wouldn't, afaik, allow dimming the lights. I believe that's why the 2476D is in the loop. Anyway, I've bought the thing, so I figure I might as well use it until it burns out.

Brian, yes, it does say "LINE CORD." It's where the AC from the house wiring is presently supplying power to the transformer. I don't see how to include the dimmer in the circuit without connecting it to those receptacles. Somehow I feel the dimmer should be downstream of the transformer, so that it only reduces power to the lighting fixtures, rather than the transformer itself, but that's not the way it was set up, before.

Brian, the wires go up into the receptacles and are secured by screws. You can see it in the photo I attached to the first post. I hope that relieves you. But, yes, I am proposing to shove the twisted wire up in there. Of course I could add another short length of wire to the two and twist all three together and cap them, then just put that third wire into the receptacle. Does that sound better to you? It is not the way it was, before, but the way it was, before, was not necessarily correct. (Again, I wish I had had the sense to photograph the wiring before I disconnected it and pulled out the old dimmer.)

Stusviews, thanks. If I understand you correctly, I tie in the line (black) wire from the house to the line (black) wire on my dimmer. But I connect my load (red) line from my dimmer into the black receptacle in the transformer. These two connections do not require creating any twisted pairs. I also tie the neutral (white) from the house into the neutral wire on the dimmer and white receptacle on the transformer. This requires twisting the two wires together and inserting the twisted pair into the receptacle. Does that sound correct? Thanks again for the pointers.

The transformer is designed for leading-edge dimmers. That's no problem. It worked for year before the dimmer went bad. The dimmer is designed to turn on landscape lighting that is all tested and good, working now with the dimmer out of the circuit. So we really are focused on just how to integrate the dimmer into the wiring from the home's electrical power to the transformer. Thanks, Franz

Dear Forum Folks, A rookie wiring question here. I want to connect a replacement 2476D dimmer to my existing landscape lighting and I’ve forgotten how the old unit was wired. I’ve currently got the wiring going from the live/lead/ground wires (black, white, and green) into the transformer’s corresponding receptacles. All is well and working. But now I want to add in the dimmer and I’m not sure how to do it. (I should have taken a photo before I took the old dimmer out!) Two or three questions: 1) Which transformer wire does the Insteon’s red/load wire correspond to? Black is live and white is neutral. I know this because the transformer is working and the lights are on. If green is the transformer's ground, then what do I do with the dimmer’s red/load wire? The transformer seems not to have a corresponding wire for it. 2a) Meanwhile, where do I wire the dimmer into the transformer circuit? Do I twist the dimmer’s wires into the ones coming from my home’s electrical wiring and put the twisted pairs into the transformer’s receptacles in the same way the home wiring is going in now? 2b) If so, then it seems I should I do that with the dimmer’s ground tying into the electrical system’s green wire and the transformer’s green receptacle. But then what do I do with the dimmer’s red/load wire? Sorry to be so ignorant, but at least I figure this is an easy question for everyone. I attach a photo of the current set up with the home's wires going into the transformer's receptacles. Thanks, Franz