frustratednon-geek

Would this work? http://dx.com/p/4-channel-12v-opto-isolator-relay-module-w-high-level-trigger-blue-233833?tc=USD&gclid=CNjL47zxprsCFQqGfgodOTcALA Something with adjustable set points would be perfect.

So that's what OptoIsolators do then? Where would I find them? Is this something I would just wire inline with the sensor inputs? Quick update: after some tinkering with the length of 'crossfade' in the DMX control board, I seem to have the system working as intended. There's a fairly loud whine as the relays fade in and out but it works. The opening relay triggers an 'off' command just prior to the closing relay triggering the 'on'. They don't step on each other any more and I don't have to program a blackout... Will keep you posted. Googling 'optoisolator' now...

This is what we've been doing for the past year or so but: [*:iij6kqni]Instead of programming a scene, you have to program a 2-step 'show.' Step 1 - a special 'Relay Blackout Scene' for 0.5sec, then Step 2 - desired scene. [*:iij6kqni]During the 0.5sec relay blackout the lights fade down slightly before going up--kinda cheesy. [*:iij6kqni]Too complex for the average user to program lighting board. We've actually got pretty good Insteon Comm and most if not all devices are dual-band. I'm pretty sure I tried this about 6 months ago and the chatter was confusing the ISY as well. What if I used a program to query the devices again after a wait. The trigger being a change in state of either I/O Linc: If: either I/O lincs are switched on or off Wait: 0.5 secs Query both I/O lincs again If: I/O 1 is on, set scene 'message' etc.??...

Ironically the system works best with the associated DMX channels set to 'Crossfade' (as opposed to 'Snap before fade' or Snap after fade'). The relay being turned on reaches its pull voltage after the other relay drops out... that is it usually does. Maybe 9/10. Good enough for home but that 1/10 times when the house goes completely dark after a cue makes me very very angry Also, the relays whine and chatter during the fade which just doesn't sit well with me... Seems like there would be an electronic workaround (resistor? Flux Capacitor?) on the 12v side but that's above my paygrade.

I'm only using the sense portion of the i/o lincs, not the relay portion so momentary is somewhat irrelevant in this case right? Here's the sequence of what happens: 1. Operator pushes 'Intro' scene button on the DMX stage lighting control board 2. DMX controlled stage lighting fixtures fade, change colors, move, etc. per whatever the scene settings are, including... 3. A DMX-32 board sitting in the attic which has 32 channels of 12v faders, 2 of which are currently in use to signal the I/O lincs... 4. The 2 channels on the board power relays which create contact closures for two I/O Lincs, each assigned to Insteon scenes we wish to trigger off the DMX event. 5. In the case of 'Intro' relay 1 closes, I/O Linc 1 senses the contact closure, sends a group command to 6 or so Insteon devices and executes the house lights to the corresponding 'Intro' scene in Insteon. Works great... Here's where the problem typically comes up: 6. Operator pushes another, 2nd scene called 'Message'. 7. Stage lighting fades to new scene, DMX-32 energizes Relay 2 , deenergizes Relay 1 almost simultaneously 8. When it works correctly, House lights pick up the group command from I/O Linc 2 and fade seemlessly to 'Message'. When things don't work the I/O Linc 2 sends the group command for 'Message' but is eclipsed shortly thereafter by I/O Linc 1 sending a group off command as its contact closure opens. Hope this makes sense. I think I need to let the ISY handle this through a program (not hard-linked) but not sure how to accomplish. About 6 months ago I tried to use a program but the ISY wasn't picking up accurate status on the two I/O lincs during transition. However I did just replace a defective PLM so maybe the erratic status reporting was an early symptom of the PLM failing. How would I program? If I/O Linc 1 is ON and 2 is off, Set scene 'Message', etc.? Thanks for your help!

I'm having trouble with two I/O Linc Contact Closure Interfaces (2450's) I installed at my church as a DMX bridge. The stage lighting controller closes 1 of the 2 relays as part of its own scene--the desired result being that the sound booth operator only needs to hit 1 button to cue both stage and house lighting systems simultaneously. Unfortunately the insteon response can be quite erratic when somehow the last command sent is from the relay that's turning off. As a workaround I can set up a cumbersome sequence via 'show control' on the DMX board which turns both relays off for about 0.5 seconds, then turns the desired one on at the initiation of the scene. Even that has failed a number of times over the last year and it's a real pain whenever we need to make lighting changes. Hoping someone can chime with an elegant solution... I've got an ISY99i on the system FYI. Thanks in advance. P.S. here is a link to a previous post of mine about the system when I first installed it

Update on the project: http://celestialaudio.com 's DMX 32 board performed as-promised and was easy for a novice like me to understand. Unfortunately, b/c of a combination of clumsiness and lack of experience I cooked the 1st board by dropping a lead on it. Celestial sent me a replacement, no charge. Awesome guy. Halfway through intall of 2nd board: Notice the fuse blocks on the bottom of the case... There's always time to do it right the 2nd time! 8 months of trouble-free service The EZIO6I is a POS and easily the weakest link in the system. I tried my hardest to login to the Simplehomenet device so I could de-bounce the inputs. We were getting erratic scene control because of Relay chatter. There's a setting to debounce inputs but it requires RS-232 which doesn't work with Windows 7. I was able to solve this by sequencing our DMX Stage Lighting Controller so that relays open & close in serial instead of parallel/simultaneously upon scene change. It's a pain to program and I'm the only one who knows how so, time to get an ISY--I've held out long enough!! Pic toward back of Church. Notice section of LEDs out (cold solder): Pic toward stage:

Thanks Illusion! I think this: http://celestialaudio.com/ca_dmx_32_V2_nfet/index.html plus the I/O Link is actually perfect and would solve 2 problems at once. Part of my installation was 150' of LED strip-lights to uplight the ceiling. The whole load was over 400 watts and dimmable transformers that would work with Insteon were far too expensive, so right now the LED'S flick on & off within scenes. For $300 I'd be able to dim the LED strips from the DMX board and have plenty of spare channels (there's 32!) to trigger the I/O link for the rest of the house lights...

Pathway connect didn't have any pricing but their interface would definitely work for triggering scenes via SimpleHomeNet Interface http://www.smarthome.com/31280/SimpleHomeNet-6-Input-INSTEON-Interface-Module-EZIO6I/p.aspx The Doug Fleenor box was over $700 which is way outside budget. I emailed Pathway about their price but I suspect they're not giving away specialty equipment like this either. Too bad I can't use one of the spare loads on a DMX dimmer pack to trigger a sense wire and use that event to execute a scene. Could something like that work? Even 1 or 2 DMX triggered scenes would make life a lot easier...

Wow, awesome thanks for the links. Yes, I only need to call 4 or 5 scenes at most so that should work perfectly and not cost a fortune. Thanks so much for the help I'll try to report back with progress...

I recently installed 8 devices to control house lighting at my church and it works fantastic. The critical requirements were simplicity and independence from the DMX board (Elation Pro) we use for stage lighting. We accomplished what we wanted and then some (thanks to the ISY I robbed from my house to write some awesome scenes), but it would be really nice if the sound tech could hit 1 button on the DMX board, say for the 'movie' cue, and not only control the DMX stage lights but cue the corresponding scene in House lts which are Insteon-controlled. It's a bit awkward to hit the DMX scene and then turn around and hit the little button on the kpl in the wall. Sometimes it's the wrong button, sometimes they mix & match Insteon scenes with stage scenes, etc. so it gets confusing. Is there a way to have the DMX board trigger Insteon scenes or even issue commands to devices directly? We need to retain the simplicity and independence of the Insteon system but would like to bridge the DMX board to the insteon devices so house lights cue automatically with the DMX stage scenes. Hope I'm asking this right. Any ideas?

Is there a way to set the Ramp Rates in the Admin Console to something in between 8.5 and 19.0 seconds? That's such a big gap in timing right in the sweet spot. I seem to remember a post somewhere that explains how to enter a string for other ramp rates native to the devices but can't seem to find it.

The rest of my Insteon order came in today along with the 4 addt'l rolls of LED strip for up-lighting of the Cove. I decided to use the 20Amp 6-KPL Relay to control the 4-chandeliers x 5 bulbs load. It's got an 1800W rating against a <1200W load so plenty of extra capacity. My plan is to run the Load (red) from the KPL relay through the existing Lutron slide-dimmer on its way out to the lights. Insteon will only be able to flip the switch on or off but the on-level (so to speak) could be set by the manual slide dimmer. I don't see any problems with doing this, anyone else? No problems with cooling--slide dimmer is in separate box by itself.

Another great point IndyMike. Something about re-lamping to a lower wattage controller like that seems half-baked. What happens 5 years from now when someone who has a thing against LEDs decides to switch back to 100W incandescents... I talked to Pastor Jim yesterday and he specifically remembered buying them because they were rated 100W/lamp. He said the electrician put the 60W bulbs in but wasn't sure why... I think I know why! There was some scrambling when we acquired the building and took on an extensive Reno. Code enforcement called out some asbestos removal in parts of the main ceiling that had been torn into. The electrician wanted to split up the front 4 chand's but it meant runnign the risk of additional asbestos removal... It's all making a little mroe sense now! I think the correct fix here for a dimmable load will be ProLine. I hit up my contractor neighbor today and he was really interested in the technology. Does anyone know if the ProLine devices are cross compatable with the rest of the Insteon line?

IndyMike: Thanks for the great advice. I just got off the phone with my dad who was chief engineer/director in a hospital for 20 years and he basically said the same thing about wattage and leaving at least a 30% buffer for line voltage variations, increased cold-start amps, etc. Duly noted on the 1800W incandescent load for the 20Amp heavy duty KPL relay. I knew inductive loads were different but didn't realize incandescent loads had to be up-rated like that as well. apostolakisl: I think LEDs are in our future (as in <2000 hours future!) but we've got a couple problems to overcome: 1. Cost: we just acquired the property and finished a huge reno so it would be near impossible to justify spending ~$1000 to re-lamp especially if the result ends up being less bright overall. 2. LED-itis: 2 people told me they liked the warmth of incandescent and that LED's are too cold. When I showed the LED test-strip (2800k) to one of the gals who had told me she didn't like LEDs, she couldn't believe it. I know it's the best solution from a technical standpoint but we need the 100W equivalent bulbs to get ironed out I just read about the Switch Lighting's "World's first 100 watt equivalent LED bulb." I bet 5 of those suckers per chandelier would be plenty bright as long as they get the Kelvin warm enough. I think the solution for now is to let the heavy-duty KPL Relay handle the load (1200 load/1800cap = 66%, okay dad??) and then just live without dimming those 4 for now. Down the road we could either migrate to LEDs and/or I'll just hit up my contractor buddy for a ProLine dimmer (and professional installation of course). Thanks for your help guys!

I'm not gonna lie; I'm a little bummed about not being able to ramp between scenes on those 4 chandeliers... maybe someday Insteon will make a 20-amp dimmer for commercial app's. They could use 2 gangs for cooling if necessary... space is not the issue in this case: The 20 amp KPL relay I'm reallocating for the 4 chandeliers was intended for the LED driver for the up-light strip(s). I projected a total load of <400 watts: There are 4 x 16' LED strips at 8A per roll 8A x 12V = 384 watts correct? Man are those suckers BRIGHT compared to incandescent ropes that use 10x as much pwr... Only $65.00 per roll on ebay: Warm White 600 SMD LED Ribbon I only ordered enough LED strip for the sides but if it turns out like I think it will I'd like to fill in the back wall with LED tape for maximum ambient light:

Everybody keeps talking about these 'fins' that you can break off on the high wattage swd's but I just bought the new dual-band 2477DH and I don't see any fins, just a metal chassis on the sides: Also, the dual-band housing doesn't seem deeper like they show on the website. While I admire how they managed to shove it all in there, I really don't need this thing blacking out on any given Sunday. I'm pretty sure I'd cuss out loud in that scenario... So I slept on it and I think the right solution--at least for now--is to control the heavy load with a 20-Amp KPL relay. The 4 chandeliers in question are always on full-bright anyway and I've got 2 in the back that are on a separate switch for scene manipulation: The LED up-lights + 2 rear chandeliers should be a nice effect once it's all in (PS they don't look that green in person):

Does anyone know if I can tie 2 switchlinc dimmers together in tandem to allow for safe sharing of a dimmable load higher than 1000W? I just burned up a new 1000W dual-band dimmer on 4 chandeliers at my church that I wanted to be included in scene control. Each chandelier has 5 x 60-watt bulbs (1200W total). Unfortunately they're up in the air about 15'+ and we only have 1 lead in the ceiling--splitting the load up isn't a realistic option. We really want dimming capability for this load. My initial thought was to replace the drab, yellowish tungsten bulbs with 45W halogen clear bulbs. We'd get more light and use only 900W. The downside is everything's 15+ feet in the air and we don't have a tall enough ladder... Also, I'm not wild about running this dimmer at 90% of rated capacity all the time. Another thought would be to tie the loads together from 2 x 1000W switchlinc dimmers and syncrhonize them with the same on-level & ramp rates in all scenes. In theory wouldn't this split the load among the 2 devices? Maybe a cleaner approach would be a hybrid with a 20A Switchlinc relay for full-bright main on and then configure a scene that shuts the relay off and simultaneously ramps the 1000w dimmer to something <80%... Are there any known/obvious problems with 2 switchlincs being wired in tandem to control the same load? Thanks in advance!

Thanks Michel. As I suspected, another limitation of the smarthome platform/hardware. I think I've got it figured out now. Nothing has been the same since I had to relocate for the baby... BTW, Trevor was born 05/11/2011 6lbs 10ozs!! I can't believe how much fun I'm having with him--he's sitting on my lap as i attempt to type this. He thinks the ISY is cool too (attached)

Loving the ISY versatility. To Michel & your team a huge WELL DONE on this device and all of its capabilities Has anyone ever suggested or have you guys ever considered a 'Bandwidth Test' of sorts--aka Signal Strength test--to help with testing and optimization of the placement of the PLM and/or Access Points on-site? As a diagnostic tool I was thinking it could just ping every device a dozen times or so--at varying intensities if possible with PLM--and then give feedback on how the PLM and access points did relative to each device. Would something like this be possible or is there a hardware limitation of some kind?

Loving the ISY versatility. Michel & your team, huge WELL DONE on this device and all of its improvements. Have you guys ever considered add 'Bandwidth Test' of sorts--aka a Signal Strength test--for on-site tuning & placement of the PLM and Access Points? As a diagnostic tool I was thinking multiple ping-ing of every device. Then feedback on how the PLM and access points are doing with each device? Is this even possible?

I had an ISY99i back in 2008 but sold it with the house (to a lighting director--obviously ). When we moved I bought a Smartlinc & about 20 devices. I thought the Smartlinc would be at least a semi-adequate replacement. Sorry but that thing is a total P-O-S. Finally the Smartlinc quit doing the 1 timed event I wanted. Got the ISY yesterday and I'm ecstatic. If you're thinking of buying a Smartlinc, don't do it! Take it from me & buy the ISY. It's far easier to use, does 50x the stuff and their support will bend over backwards for you. Gotta go, just wanted to give a huge shout-out to the boys (& girls?) who build this little box of amazement. Inside of maybe 2 hours I've already gotten all of my devices linked, set up DNS Internet Access throught he web and my phone, and downloaded an INCREDIBLE Android app called Conductor that really works!! (the Smartlinc didn't have an Android app last I checked. I could login through web on phone but it was clunky, dum-dum, painfully slow interface and a b**ch to set up). Can't wait to write some of my most sorely missed programs (ALL-OFF with status light was one of my favorites). I'll get conditional motion sensing back, scene creation. THANK YOU MICHEL and the crack team who made this thing. Well done!! -Josh

First time through and it all worked!! Had a terrible time getting the Smartlinc to remote access but ISY was a breeze... Trick is getting router settings right...

I completely get what you're talking about, although I would NEVER have the patience to put up with what you have been through. I literally pounded my fist on the keyboard so hard this evening that I bent the printed circuit board. I thought about kicking my cat that was screeching at me but I regained my composure just in time. All those resets, freezes, re-linking, etc. I'd be in the psych ward by now... I have found the ISY to be the single most frustrating piece of equipment I've ever owned or operated. I will say that it does seem to work well once everything is up and running, and the service and support is beyond excellent. The UD's attitude and demeanor and willingness to help somehow makes up for all the instability and problems, although it doesn't prevent me from occasionally damaging equipment... I too cringe every time I need to make a change or add a device. Just when you think it's going to be a simple modification, you find yourself 12 hours later at 3:00 AM (like me right now) delerious and pissed off and ready to make a boat anchor out of that little box. I love the sledgehammer bit. I am SO RIGHT THERE WITH YOU my friend! In defense of UD, I will say they're dealing with a difficult set of circumstances. Not only do they have a moving target with the device manufacturer's hardware/software changes and numerous xxlinc versions and features, not all of which play well with others. But then they're also working against the usual Windows SNAFU of antivirus, firewall, operating system differences, etc. across all the PC manufacturers' peculiarities. If you think about the total market footprint for a device like this and then consider the time and resources it must have taken to get the ISY and admin console up and running as good as it is, it's actually a small miracle. I suspect many engineers at larger companies with far greater resources have produced far less impressive results than these...

My ISY sems to have a mind of its own suddenly and has been picking and choosing what it wants to do and when it wants to do it. About 2 weeks ago my motion sensor programs began working only about 50% of the time. Shortly thereafter the "All-Off" program's triggers stopped triggering the all off scene, yet the status light programs still indicate correctly. I created a series of test programs with simple if/then commands and noted the following: -programs with timed events work properly -programs triggered by a switchlink work properly (If switchlinc 'A' is switched fast-off set scene A off). -programs triggered by any of my keypadlincs or motion sensors just don't work anymore (If kepadlinc D is switched off, set scene A off). It just disregards the control signal and doesn't trigger the program. In fact I can't get status on any of the buttons either. -I have removed and re-linked the motion sensors and one of the keypadlincs, and still none of it works. I also replaced the batteries in the motion sensors. -After re-linking the 6-button keypadlinc, it now shows up as only a single address in the admin console (I used to see status on each button) -I randomly get "unable to communicate with xx.xx.xx" dialog boxes, but when I query or activate the device through the console, the red exclamation point goes away and it behaves normally. -I have restored the ISY, restored the PLM, restored all devices--nothing... -I opened the router admin and noticed the ip address for the ISY changed to 192.168.1.103 where it used to be 192.168.1.4 Around the time all of these issues started cropping up I did move the PLM to a different outlet and changed the physical location of the ISY, although it still plugs directly into the router in the same way. Where do I even start? Start over? Give up?