srjacob

Being used for decades doesn't mean that the model is currently correct, only that it has been used for decades. The Elk M1 programming kinda sorta follows this model, but it's scheduler doesn't seem to work in the same way as the UD scheduler. IMHO, the Linux scheduler works MUCH better than either of these two, and is more logical. The scheduler is Windows isn't bad (I don't know much about Apple). My guess is that the OSs for these controllers was written in the days of old, slow processors. Probably someone took Unix and took out most of the code because it wouldn't fit in the processor. Modern (even in the days of the ISY994) weren't old and slow, and not much effort was given to rewriting them for Linux. The best RTOS (real-time operating system) was Multics, but Unix (Linux is based on Unix) developers took out much of the code because it wouldn't fit inside a PDP-8. UD needs to clean up their code and import it to Linux. My ISY994 took 1/2 the time to get working as the eisy did, which included the Elk module. What I want in a controller is bulletproof software, not some spaghetti code jobby. The UD controllers don't even have good tracing or diagnostic capability (select the level of diagnostics you need). Also, the documentation leaves much to be desired. Wiki isn't the best for documentation. I have seem too much of this type of thing in modern programming. I am getting tired of these conversations. So far, I have encountered 6 bad websites due to bad programming. Perhaps AI (the real thing is in short supply) can do a better programming job . What it can't do is documentation and design, which are sorely lacking. Steve

I simply don't agree, when UD doesn't give you the option. DHCP isn't always right for some advanced users, and you can't do IP address reservation in most cable-company supplied cable modem/routers simply because they won't give you the password because they don't want a user monkeying around with their router. IoX was supposed to fix that problem, but (in my experience-and this is documented) sometimes IoX will not find the eisy (or 994), and if you don't know the IP address, you are out of luck. UD could have made DHCP the default, but give the advanced user the ability to set the IP address with some difficulty (like logging into the device using PuTTY). And yes, plugins are not the same as simple automation programming, but as I mentioned above, give the advanced user the option of writing plugins or sophisticated automation programs (without the high developer fees). Plugins are interesting, because they take the burden of development and support away from UD. If I could write my automation programs in a programming language (say C or Python), I could eliminate half of them. And speaking of plugins, support is terrible. I have been trying to get in touch with the Elk plugin developer for a while, now. I would dearly like to modify the code for that plugin to give the the user Id of the user that typed their code into the keypad on my gate (which the Elk controls), but the plugin won't do it. I was considering writing a simple program for a Raspberry Pi to do this, but didn't do it. The communication between the plugin and the Elk is well documented. The firmware in these controllers is simply a carryover from the earlier ones (think ISY99), and everything else is simply an add-on (like PGXV3) and the plug-ins. The entire framework needs to be re-designed and re-written. PGX is simply silly, and they entire framework should be incorporated in the admin console, which should be written in something like Python, not Java (they probably pay huge royalties to Oracle). Java is becoming a dead language thanks to the high fees by Oracle (who now owns Java). Even browsers are moving away from Java (think HTML5), and even Android (I don't know much about IOS) doesn't use Java (and probably never will). A good model (which may or may not have been designed) is Octoprint, which seems simple and straightforward to use and add plug-ins. I never used Polisy, since my ISY994 was working great with firmware V5 and the only reason I went to eisy was for a hardware backup to the 994. I have a spare ISY994, but with no ability to install the Elk module, I'll use it in some other application. I have been in the IT business for over 50 years, and my last job before I retired was that I headed up the IT Architecture and Engineering Division for a major airline. I have spend years uncovering why programs (and systems) didn't work, and once I reverse engineered the design, it became apparent why the problems were occurring. I believe it is this way with the UD stuff. I once taught a class in client-server computing at a major university, and since every computer class required the students to write a program pertaining to the class, I requested that the students submit the program DESIGN before coding anything. I got a lot of blank stares, and finally someone in the back of the room raised their hand and asked "what is a design". I spend the bulk of the class showing various design techniques, and they finally got it. I had a former boss considering my philosophy of design "quaint". I could go on, but I won't. Steve Senior Life Member of IEEE.

And yet plugins are written in a programming language (possibly Python), not the silly programming that UD has created over the years. Another thing (one among many) that annoys me: UD has forced everyone to use DHCP instead of static IP addresses.

Is there a way to comment each line of a program? That would be really nice.

It would be really nice if I could write a Python (or Java) program to do the conditionals. Any way to do this? Regarding your comment about repeats or triggers, I use variables as flags (I am an old programmer).

Thanks. I didn't know I could still run a disabled program. That would simplify things.

Copy and paste the program like this? 424Entered Copy Copy - [ID 0021][Parent 0001] If -( | 'First Floor / Back Door' Logical Status is Violated | Or 'First Floor / Kitchen Door' Logical Status is Violated | Or 'First Floor / Front Door' Logical Status is Violated | Or 'Basement / Basement Door' Logical Status is Violated -) And $Away_Off is 1 Then Send Notification to 'Email' content '424Entered' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Send "424 Entered" message if "Away Off" was triggered by garage keypad. The parenthesis seems to work, too. I wish there was some way to embed IF statements in the THEN block (like other programming languages). Thank you for your help.

I need some advice on a program. I have uploaded two screenshot. PGM1 is the program that exists, but doesn't work as I intended. Yes, I am using the Elk plugin. PGM2 (note the red parenthesis) is what I wanted to do, but there doesn't seem to be any way in the eisy programming language to do it. Could some nice person tell me how to do this. Steve

Yes, that's what I thought, too. I just don't know how to contact the plugin author. If I did, I probably wouldn't have posted this on the forum. I though if I posted it, the plugin author might read it and respond. What entries are you referring too?

Actually, some of the outputs are flags and are defined in the Elk, some of the outputs are non-existent because I have to go up to output 197 (which is the relay control for the M1KAM module). I have never seen the arrows before. It sure looks like the eisy is trying to go out and get the outputs, but it can't. The logs are attached. UDReport.xlsx ELK_8-24-2025_12542_PM.zip

What is going on? None of my outputs are being queried. See uploaded image.

I have a working ISY994 running about 30 Insteon devices and an Elk M1 System. I have a spare ISY994 I would like to get running as a backup to my working ISY. The ISY is running firmware 5.0.16C, which seems fairly stable. I would like to transfer the firmware and Elk module to the backup ISY. Is there any good way to do it? I tried telnetting into the working ISY using PUTTY, but the ISY rejects the telnet. If I pull the SD card from the working ISY, copy it on a Windows 11 machine, then burn an SD card with that image (using RUFUS), will that work? If not, is there a better way to do this?

I don't know what the issue is. It was suggested in a previous post that it sounds like an IoX issue. I submitted a ticket to UD. I only wanted to access the admin console for the particular device (eisy or ISY994) That's not what is happening, however. 1) I have expressed this in my tickets. It didn't do any good. 2)I am running Windows 11, Java version 8 update 451 3) I don't have a memory setting, but I added the -Xmx1024m to the Runtime Parameters. Didn't seem to make a bit of difference. I still get the error. BTW, I have 64GB of RAM, and my 3D CAD programs use every bit of it.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were an IoX issue, since I have had problems with UD software in the past. That said, I unplugged the eisy, and plugged it back in, and launched the admin console for the eisy, and the message went away. I have a great network connection to the eisy, and am using a 1 foot cable from the network switch (the same one the ISY994 is on). I am using the LAN admin console as I don't trust clouds. I am using the latest firmware in the eisy. CORRECTION: I launched the admin console again to get the firmware and UI version, and was greeted with the same message. I couldn't do anything with the admin console until I clicked the X and then it asked me if I wanted to run the admin console. I clicked the YES button, and the admin console came up. The relevant info is shown in the attachments. I went to the forum first because I am having a great deal of issues reporting problems to Universal Devices via tickets. They take around 2 days to answer, and then they ask a question. I answer the question, and they never respond. It's very discouraging.

But the admin console is started and when I x out of that message, all seems well. Something definetly is broken.