Scenes not reliable

[NewbieTri100]

I'm been using my ISY-994i IR/Pro for about 45 days. I've got 75 insteon devices linked to it. 80% of the devices are Switchlincs.The remainder are various generations of plugin Lamplincs and Iconlincs.

 

For some reason my scenes don't appear to be as reliable compared to when I control the devices individually.

 

For example, at sunset I turn several lights on. I've included all the lights in a scene and use a program to turn on the scene. I can't consistently get all the devices included in the scene to turn on when the program runs at sunset.

 

If I turn all the devices on individually in the program, all the lights turn on as expected, every time.

 

I also have several scenes that are linked to KPL's. The same situation applies. If I simply just include the KPL as a controller of the scene, the reliability isn't consistent. However, if I use the KPL to trigger a program that turns the devices on individually, it seems to work... every time.

 

Lastly, I noticed that my plug in modules, including the new dual band LampLincs don't respond are consistently in scenes compared to wall switches.

 

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you,

 

Michael

[NewbieTri100]

BTW, if I should have posted my question on the Smarthome section, please let me know and I will repost it in the correct section.

 

Michael

[LeeG]

NewbieTri100

 

The difference is an ISY Scene initiated from a Program or the Admin Console has no command retry associated with it. A marginal Insteon network can produce unreliable Scene responses. When the Scene is invoked from a Controller such as a KeypadLinc button the Insteon Scene protocol applies where commands can be retried several times.

 

Some basic things to check, the PLM should be plugged into an outlet to avoid surge/noise suppression built into some power strips. Any other electronics powered from the same plug point as the PLM should be isolated with a FilterLinc. Make sure the Access Points pass the 4 tap Set button test to insure they are in RF range of each other and on opposite 120v legs.

 

Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Use the Admin Console to turn various devices On and Off several times to see if the Max Hop=3 Hops Left=x count varies from message to message, device to device. Are some of the devices producing consistent Hops Left=2 or Hops Left=1 and other devices have a Hops Left=x count that jumps around, is not consistent. It may be possible to identify specific electrical circuits that are reliable and those that are not.

[NewbieTri100]

LeeG,

 

Thanks for your input.

 

I've made sure that my access points are on separate legs. I've switched out 15 of my 75 devices with dual band devices to make my system more robust. My understanding is the more dual band devices on the network, the greater the reliability. Is that correct?

 

It's good to know that programs or command from the console don't utilize the command retry feature. I was unaware that was the case. My scenes triggered by the KPL's are equally unreliable. I did notice that the FPL button usually blinks a few times after I push the button. In instances where that occurs, I've noticed that some of the lights included in the scene fail to respond accordingly (turn off or on). My scenes are most reliable when I manually trigger them from the console.

 

I will spend some time performing the diagnostics that you suggested.

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

Michael

[LeeG]

Sorry, I misread this initial statement.

 

"However, if I use the KPL to trigger a program that turns the devices on individually, it seems to work... every time."

 

This means individual device control from the PLM location works because there are four attempts to control each device.

 

When pressing a KPL button that drives a Scene, when this is unreliable you definitely have Insteon network issues between the KPL location and the failing responder(s). When a device fails to respond here at least four different messages were not received by the failing device(s). Although the feature has been dropped by the most recent KPL firmware, a blinking KPL button indicates one or more Responders did not ACK the Scene On/Off (assuming it is not the two blink non-toggle mode button press).

 

In wall Dual Band devices have been found not to have the RF coverage of an Access Point. The wiring in the box seems to reduce the RF coverage and if a metal box RF coverage is substantially reduced.

 

"I can't consistently get all the devices included in the scene to turn on when the program runs at sunset. "

 

This can also be caused by multiple Programs being triggered at sunset. Insteon allows only one Scene to operate so if multiple Programs run Scenes one can cancel the other. Either put all the Scene activity in one Program or spread out the Sunset run times with Sunset +x minutes.

[NewbieTri100]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I don't run multiple programs at sunset. I just turn on a scene, turn on a few devices individually, and set a few variables. After receiving your feedback yesterday, specifically that scenes triggered by programs do not utilize the retry feature, I decided to turn the scene on, wait 3 seconds, and turn the scene on again.

 

There has only been opportunity to test it but it worked. I know I shouldn't have to turn on the scene twice to get it to work but you "do what you have to do".

 

The scene triggered by the KPL that causes me the most problems turns on and off 4 table lamps in the master bedroom. The scene is triggered by the keypress of a KPL button.

 

Do you think swapping out the lamp modules with dual band modules will solve the problem?

 

Regards,

 

Michael

[LeeG]

Using Dual Band LampLincs may help. Could try replacing just one LampLinc and see if that improves the bedroom circuit. If all the LampLincs fail to react to the KPL button press it means that each LampLinc could not be reached with 4 different messages to each LampLinc. That indicates a substantial problem on that circuit, a cell phone charger, flat screen TV, something is causing significant interference on what is likely one electrical circuit. See what else is powered from that circuit breaker. The other possibility is the KPL is powered from the opposite 120v phase and phase coupling is not working as well as it might.

 

Adding an additional Scene On is a simple work around. Does not solve the underlying powerline problem which may show up in some other area but that analysis can be delayed until some other problem surfaces.

[ahwman]

I'm been using my ISY-994i IR/Pro for about 45 days. I've got 75 insteon devices linked to it. 80% of the devices are Switchlincs.The remainder are various generations of plugin Lamplincs and Iconlincs.

 

For some reason my scenes don't appear to be as reliable compared to when I control the devices individually.

 

For example, at sunset I turn several lights on. I've included all the lights in a scene and use a program to turn on the scene. I can't consistently get all the devices included in the scene to turn on when the program runs at sunset.

 

If I turn all the devices on individually in the program, all the lights turn on as expected, every time.

 

I also have several scenes that are linked to KPL's. The same situation applies. If I simply just include the KPL as a controller of the scene, the reliability isn't consistent. However, if I use the KPL to trigger a program that turns the devices on individually, it seems to work... every time.

 

Lastly, I noticed that my plug in modules, including the new dual band LampLincs don't respond are consistently in scenes compared to wall switches.

 

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you,

 

Michael

 

Michael,

 

I'm having the exact same issue as you. I have 42 insteon devices, 6 of which are dual band. The dual band devices always work and trigger correctly in their respective scenes, however I have intermittent issues with many of my other single band devices/scenes. Like you, triggering the problem devices directly always succedes, however the same can't be said for their respective scenes. I'm considering replacing all of my single band devices for dual band, however that would be very costly and a lot of work. Have you found a solution to this problem?

 

Thank you...