Garage Door Kit and KPL

[Issacsim]

I just installed the Garage Door kit model: 74551 and followed the instructions in the Wiki to program into ISY.

 

The problem I am having is the KPL button is on when the door is closed and off when open, status LED on I/O Link is green when door is closed as per instruction that came with the kit.

 

The Wiki refers to different color wiring, my kit came with all white wires.

 

 

How can I fix this?

[LeeG]

Unfortunately SmartLabs/Smarthome stopping selling the garage kit with the magnetic switch that has both a NO and NC magnetic switch built in (had 3 wires). The only good solution is to change the magnetic switch to NO which is closed when the magnet is away from the switch (I/O Linc will be On when door is Open).

[Issacsim]

Thanks LeeG,

 

Do I need to get a new magnet switch? If yes, could you recommend one?

[LeeG]

Yes, you need a different magnetic switch

 

SECO-LARM SM-300Q/WH Surface Mount Magnetic Contact Switch, Normally Open

 

Or

 

SECO-LARM SM-226L-3 which is what the garage kit came with in the past

 

Smarthome carries both of these

[Issacsim]

Thank you!

[kck]

You can get the effect you want with the magnetic switch you have but it requires a program and a scene. Create a scene in which the responders are the KPL button(s) that you want to reflect the door status. Then create a program like:

 

If

Status "GD Opener-Sensor" is not On

Then

Set Scene 'GD Status' On

Else

Set Scene 'GD Status' Off

 

I have some corner cases in my setup where things could get out of sync so I actually run this program every 15 minutes from another program just to make sure the indicators are correct for those cases but I don't think I actually would have to. In any case, using a program and a KPL scene you can make things work as you'd like with the supplied switch.

[Guest]

My garage door and KPL have gotten out of sync, too. What causes that? For a month since I installed the KPL, the LED on the KPL was off when the garage door was closed, and on when the door was open. If the LED was on, i pushed that button and the garage door closed. Now the garage door is closed but the light is on. I have a second KPL in my bedroom, responding to the same IOLinc at the garage door. It is still off when the garage door is closed. How can one KPL be out of sync but the other on be in sync?

[LeeG]

"How can one KPL be out of sync but the other on be in sync?"

 

1 Communications problem

2 Link record problem either in the I/O Linc or the KeypadLinc

3 Trigger Reverse option being used which can create problems under ISY

[oberkc]

It is still off when the garage door is closed. How can one KPL be out of sync but the other on be in sync?

 

Depending on how the scenes and programs are established, toggle modes for the KPLs, and configuration of the IOLinc, it is not hard to get them out of sync.

 

One clue would include whether the status, as shown by the ISY admin panel, is the same or different than that of the actual KPL.

[GuitarBuilder]

Can we have a sticky with the "ideal" program for Garage Doors?

 

It seems like everyone is asking the same questions.

[LeeG]

I think the problem will be developing the characteristics of the 'ideal' solution. Some want the KPL buttons On when doors are open. Some want the KPL buttons On when the doors are closed. Some want to combine door movement and door status into a single KPL button. Some want to have door status and door movement on separate buttons. Then what hardware is being used. Is the magnetic switch NO, NC or both. Smarthome changed the type of magnetic switch shipped with the garage kit. Is a single door position being monitored or are both fully open and full closed being monitored.

 

EDIT: another factor to consider. A Program may not be required at all. A few Scenes may be all that is necessary to get the desired KPL display and door control.

[oberkc]

Can we have a sticky with the "ideal" program for Garage Doors?

 

It does seem as though garage doors are one of the common themes. In my mind, the "ideal" setup is in the wiki, but I agree with LeeG that personal preferences and setup can vary quite a bit.

 

Given that a measurable number appear not to read the wiki, dedicated forums, or even the user manual, I hold little hope that a sticky topic will fare much better.

[Teken]

Can we have a sticky with the "ideal" program for Garage Doors?

 

It does seem as though garage doors are one of the common themes. In my mind, the "ideal" setup is in the wiki, but I agree with LeeG that personal preferences and setup can vary quite a bit.

 

Given that a measurable number appear not to read the wiki, dedicated forums, or even the user manual, I hold little hope that a sticky topic will fare much better.

 

We are men! We don't need no stinkin manual! I agree, sometimes if people took 5 minutes to read some of the forum threads the insight they seek would be found.

 

How ever, there are times when the search comes up with 9999999999 results and that can be quite a bit of material to ingest.

 

Teken . . .

[Issacsim]

Also keep in mind that Smarthome made changed the magnetic contact in the kit, so maybe the wiki needs updating. The only reason I started this thread was that I was getting oppsite results from the WiKi.

[Guest]

I did check the wiki before I posted my question. I also read the instructions for the garage door kit. I installed the garage door kit in accordance with the instructions. Then I set up two scenes as the wiki instructed. But then, the wiki says if you installed the garage door kit according to the instructions, you might have problems, so use the red and black wires instead of the black and green wires, when all of my wires are white. And what is a "reed switch"? I also did a search of the forum, and found a lot of threads, some with conflicting advice, and some that were close to my situation, but not quite the same. So after all of that, I piggy-backed a question on the thread the Issacism started. All I wanted to do was get a better understanding of the how and the why of the garage door kit, so eventually I will understand it well enough that, when it does not behave as expected, I can figure out what went wrong and how to correct it, without needing this forum.

 

Keep in mind that all of this is new. While I am trying to understand the peculiarities of the garage door kit, I am also wrestling with KPLs, motion sensors, fanlincs, and thermostats. Not to mention the ISY itself. It is quite daunting (and often frustrating) for someone who does not work with electronics and circuits every day. I have read the users manual for every device I own, and have spent hours reading the wiki, this forum, and the Smarthome forum. I am educating myself, but it is a long, slow process. Please forgive me if I occasionally take a shortcut and ask a question here before I have read every possible post on the subject. Believe me, before I post a question to the forum, I have spent a lot of time and head-scratching to try to understand the problem on my own. But sometimes, I do not know which post, or which wiki article, to believe.

 

Having said all that, allow me to offer my admiration and respect, and especially my gratitude, for those on this forum (and the SH forum) who help others like myself make sense of all this new Insteon technology. I am amazed at the number of threads that start out "Help! I've tried everything, and I can't get it to work," and end up, just a few posts later, with "Thanks for your advice. I tried what you suggested and it worked. Everything is running great now". And yes, a few of those threads were mine. As TFitzpatri8 posted on the other forum a few weeks ago, "This site has attracted some seriously talented people who are remarkably generous with their time!"

Thank you.

[LeeG]

Are your KPLs still getting out of sync?

 

Don't worry about the questions. Smarthome just loves to change things with the magnetic switch in the I/O Linc Garage Kit being one of them. A reed switch is the part of the magnetic switch that has the wires attached. There are two pieces of metal inside a small glass tube that look like reeds which are affected by whether the magnet is next to or away from the reed part of the switch. Some reed switches are closed when the magnet is near, others are open when the magnet is near, and others have both type reeds built into the switch so either can be selected (when the kit came with a magnetic switch with three wires).

 

The I/O Linc is one of the most complex Insteon devices you will encounter. Lots of device options and features. Each one individually is not too difficult to understand. It’s when they all come together, interacting with each other that things seem more complex than they actually are.

 

Also do not attribute feelings to how information is phrased. I personally don't spend time dressing up a post with pleasant sounding phrases. Just a waste of time.

[oberkc]

I did check the wiki before I posted my question. I also read the instructions for the garage door kit. I installed the garage door kit in accordance with the instructions. Then I set up two scenes as the wiki instructed.

 

Nice.

 

In case I was not clear, my perception about people reading instructions was mostly to wonder aloud whether a sticky post would help, as opposed to an accusation towards any specific individual.

 

I agree with LeeG...the garage door example is about as complicated an insteon device that exists. It took a bit of trial-and-error on my part, for sure.

[Issacsim]

On the topic of garage doors, did anyone figure out a way to connect the kit to one of the newer encrypted garage door openers?

[LeeG]

I don't know if any have been encrypted. There are several types of multi function multi button controllers the I/O Linc Relay cannot be connected to using the pair of wires between the opener and the controller. Conventional simple single button openers short the pair of wires together. This action kills the power running to multi function controllers and generally does not result in door movement. A few cases using less than .5 second Relay On time have worked but the LCD display loses the clock. A solution has been to connect the I/O Linc Relay internally where the simple Open/Close button attaches to the PCB. Another solution has been to use a simple RF remote and make the I/O Link Relay connection to the RF remote PCB where the Open/Close button attaches to the RF remote PCB.

 

My Wayne-Dalton Controllers are all RF only which makes connection internally to the controller PCB mandatory. This has worked well for several years.

 

The Smarthome forum has several topics that discuss how to connect the I/O Linc Relay to a PCB at the open/close button connections. Again, I don’t remember discussions about encrypted controllers but connecting the I/O Linc Relay to the open/close button connections would seem to bypass any encryption concerns.

[Teken]

On the Liftmaster 3800 Jack Shaft GDO's. All I did was wire in the I/O Linc in parallel to the opener itself. I set the I/O Linc to 0.5 seconds via the ISY and all has worked for more than three years. The Liftmaster 3800 uses the code hoping technology to randomly generate the next code. It is not in its purest form considered encrypted as it does not send out a hash key etc.

 

Teken . . .

[Issacsim]

I am using Chamberlain Model # HD920EV I purchased at the home depot. I have contacted Chamberlain support, and there is no way to use a simple open/close switch with this unit.

 

I guess my next step will be is to take the RF remote apart and try soldering some wires to the on/off button.

[Brian H]

If you have a wall mounted control panel. Another option is open it up and connect the I/OLinc to its push button.

[Issacsim]

If you have a wall mounted control panel. Another option is open it up and connect the I/OLinc to its push button.

 

 

Thanks, will explore both options.

[oberkc]

I have a chamberlain opener, but forget the specific model. The wall opener has buttons for OPEN, LIGHT, and LOCK. The wall unit also has a motion sensor. Given this, I would have assumed that the wall unit is a bit more sophisticated that a simple contact closure.

 

Having said this, mine works fine by connecting the IOLinc directly to the opener terminals. Don't assume that yours won't work without first checking.

[Issacsim]

I have a chamberlain opener, but forget the specific model. The wall opener has buttons for OPEN, LIGHT, and LOCK. The wall unit also has a motion sensor. Given this, I would have assumed that the wall unit is a bit more sophisticated that a simple contact closure.

 

Having said this, mine works fine by connecting the IOLinc directly to the opener terminals. Don't assume that yours won't work without first checking.

 

Thank you oberkc,

 

I did check. When connecting the wires, the controller resets and door does not open.