Is it possible to have Lamplinc control scenes?

[wayneph]

I am currently using a KeypadLinc to control some scenes. (Currently just a single LampLinc, but if I can get it working I'll probably add more lights to it.) Both of the Keypad buttons are set in toggle mode and control separate scenes.

 

Scene 1: KeyE (Controller), KeyF (LED Off), Lamp (50%)

Scene 2: KeyF (Controller), KeyE (LED Off), Lamp (100%)

 

Alternating presses for KeyE and KeyF correctly toggle the lamp from 50% to 100% and keep the buttons in sync. Pressing the currently Active Key correctly turns off the lamp as well as the LED on both Keys. Unfortunately where the LampLinc is plugged in, occasionally it is just more convenient to press the up/down arrows which get it out of sync with the keypad toggles.

 

Would it be possible to set up the buttons on the LampLinc to move the scene in the appropriate direction? i.e. if the lamp is Off, the Up arrow would enable Scene 1. If on Scene 1, up would go to Scene 2 and down would turn off. If on Scene 2, off would go to Scene 1.

 

So far I haven't found a way to "override" the default actions of the buttons. Any suggestions? Or should I just avoid hitting buttons that directly control loads if I want Scenes involved from KeypadLincs?

[franklyn7895]

According to the information of the dimmer you can set it up to control the keypadLinc. To do this manually, do as the following direct from manual:

 

Adding LampLinc Dimmer as an INSTEON Controller

Follow the steps below to make LampLinc Dimmer control another INSTEON device.

 

1) Set the responder device to the state you want to be activated from LampLinc Dimmer.

If the responder is a multi-scene device such as a KeypadLinc, tap the scene button you want to use

as the responder.

2) Put LampLinc Dimmer into linking mode: press and hold the Set button until it beeps.

LampLinc Dimmer will begin blinking green.

You will have 4 minutes to complete the next step before linking mode times out.

3) Press and hold the responder’s Set button for about 3 seconds.

LampLinc Dimmer will double-beep.

LampLinc Dimmer’s status LED will stop blinking, then turn on solid green if the load is on or

solid red if the load is off.

4) Confirm that linking was successful by tapping LampLinc Dimmer’s Up and Down buttons.

The responder will respond appropriately.

 

 

Now, if you are using the ISY, you will have to set up a new scene with the dimmer being the controller and the keypadlinc buttons being the responders.

[oberkc]

I understand that you can (as pointed out by franklyn7895) make the lamplinc a controller in your scene. However, I suspect this will not keep your keypad buttons in sync. A scene controller, as I understand, can turn a scene ON or OFF only. I do not believe it can have multiple ON settings, nor turn a scene to 50%.

 

I believe you would accomplish this with a program. First, however, you would have to decide what you want as a relationship between lamplinc status and keypad buttons. Do you want button E lit when lamplinc hits 50% exactly? Or do you want button E lit when it is between 0 and 50%? Or something else. You will need to make similar decisions with regards to button F.

 

Once decided, it would be relatively simple to create a couple of programs;

 

if

status lamplinc is whatever you decide

then

set keypadE on

else

set keypadE off

 

if

status lamplinc is whatever you decide

then

set keypadF on

else

set keypadF off

[EricK]

I think you can get this done with a few programs I am sure an expert will reply and may be able to simplify this. Or they may suggest to use a variable to track which scene is on or if everything is off

 

Second program (scene 1 to 2). I don't think you need to use the status of the lamp in the condition.

If lamp is switched on

And keyE is on

Then set scene 2 on

 

Third program (scene 2 to 1)

If lamp is switched on

And keyF is on

Then set scene 1 on.

 

First program (if off set scene 1 on)

If lamp is switched on

And keyE is off

And keyF is off

Then set scene 1 on

 

I am not sure if you can use the status of the lamp as a condition for program1. Example:

If lamp is off

And control lamp is switched on

Then set scene1 on.

The reason is that as soon as the lamp is switched on the condition if off becomes false.

Eric

Edit: I had not seen the reply from oberkc. Because it is a dimmer you may need to use fade up in the programs. In addition I think you need a scene with keyE and keyF "keyE and F" as responders. You would need an additional program:

If status lamp is off

Then set scene keyE and F off

[oberkc]

EricK's suggested solution is an interesting thought. The only potential concern I have is that the lamp will go to the same preset level (local ON level) each time the ON button is pressed. From that level, it would go to the scene levels when the program executes. This may be noticeable in some cases, but with a judicious use of long local ramp rates, you may be able to mitigate this effect. This could work well. Keep in mind that using this approach, there is no need to define the lamplinc as a controller in the scene.

 

Another issue to work around is what happens when a lamp is turned on by it's switch. Is this a concern for you?

 

Expanding upon EricK's suggestion, you may also consider triggering programs from an OFF command.

[wayneph]

Thanks guys. I had started coming to conclusion that I would need to use programs to control this. I have 3 (Laplinc Off, Lamplinc <=50, Lamplinc >50) that seem to be firing at the right time, but the actual Keypad Buttons are responding to the On/Off commands.

 

I'm going to start looking at changing the scenes instead of trying to directly control the keypad. While I think the initial setup will be a bit more difficult (or not with all the examples), I think it will be a little bit easier later if/when I add more items into the scene.

 

The only other thing I may need to deal with is someone holding in a LampLinc button to dim and brighten locally. I don't see that happening often, and as long as I can use the keypad buttons to "reset" things I'll be OK.

 

Thanks again, I just started installing Insteon and ISY a couple weeks ago, so I'm still trying to figure out what all is possible and then sorting out the best method to accomplish multiple tasks.

[EricK]

I have this program for the chandelier for our stairs. These lights are essentially always on. Since the kids sleep with their doors open I have a program to set the lights to 50% at certain times. However, if by chance we get the kids to bed before the lights are at 50% I have this program to get them there. The lights can be controlled by a switchlinc dimmer (load) or a kpl button.

If
       Control 'Hall and Foyer / Hallway KPL8 - A - Hallway / Hallway KPL8 - B - Stairs' is switched Fast On
    Or Control 'Hall and Foyer / Hallway KPL8 - A - Hallway / Hallway KPL8 - B - Stairs' is switched Fast Off
    Or Control 'Hall and Foyer / Hallway Stairs' is switched Fast On
    Or Control 'Hall and Foyer / Hallway Stairs' is switched Fade Stop
    Or Control 'Hall and Foyer / Hallway KPL8 - A - Hallway / Hallway KPL8 - B - Stairs' is switched Fade Stop

Then
       Wait  3 seconds
       Set Scene 'Hall and Foyer / Hallway Stairs 50%' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Default on level is 90%.  Double tap on or off to go to 50%.

Yes, the problem with this is that if the lights are at 90%, the evening level, and I fast switch on the switchlinc, the lights to go to 100% first, then to 50%. I can just do a little fade down and the lights dim a little, then go to 50%. Typically if I am adjusting the lights this way it is from the switchlinc upstairs, not the kpl downstairs. When the lights are on at 90% the kpl button is on. If I double tap it, the lights do turn off, then ramp back to 50%. I think this is a limitation of using kpls button for this.

Wayne,

For your program, you can set it up so if the lights are on 50% a fade up will help trigger the program to get them to 100%. If the lights are 100% and you do a fade down, they go to 50%.

If
       Control 'Hall and Foyer / Sconce' is switched Fade Up
   And Status  'X Test2 KPL - E' is not Off

Then
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Else
       Set Scene 'Hall and Foyer / Sconce 100%' On

I hope this is helping. It certainly helps me to learn more about programming.

Eric

[EricK]

Thanks guys. I had started coming to conclusion that I would need to use programs to control this. I have 3 (Laplinc Off, Lamplinc <=50, Lamplinc >50) that seem to be firing at the right time, but the actual Keypad Buttons are responding to the On/Off commands.

 

I'm going to start looking at changing the scenes instead of trying to directly control the keypad. While I think the initial setup will be a bit more difficult (or not with all the examples), I think it will be a little bit easier later if/when I add more items into the scene.

 

The only other thing I may need to deal with is someone holding in a LampLinc button to dim and brighten locally. I don't see that happening often, and as long as I can use the keypad buttons to "reset" things I'll be OK.

 

Thanks again, I just started installing Insteon and ISY a couple weeks ago, so I'm still trying to figure out what all is possible and then sorting out the best method to accomplish multiple tasks.

 

Wayne,

Programming is not hard. Just read a lot of threads and get help here like I have done. You cannot directly control a KPL button. You would need to add the button to be a responder (with response set at 100%) of a scene then set that scene on or off. With the setup I propose local dimming can get things out of sync, but you can tighten things up to prevent this. You can make it so local dimming results in the lights at only off, 50%, or 100%. Then there are ways to monitor the lights to make sure things remain in sync. I don't think with automation like this that you should ever have to manually set things back in sync. Please check this tutorial:

http://adamsj.com/isy/basementa.htm

I used this method to monitor a scene to set a kpl on or off depending upon the scene status:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13557

I think this is what oberkc was describing in his first reply.

Eric

[wayneph]

Thanks again for the help. The programming doesn't concern me. I've been doing some semblance development since middle school. It's just getting used to what I am allowed (and not allowed) to do. Coming from languages where I can free form loops, nest conditionals and/or use syntax with multiple branches it's taking a little bit of time getting used to the constructs supported here. I'll get there.

 

Just in case anyone is interested, here are the 3 programs that I ended up with for now. I'm using the two KPL buttons as the "drivers" for current state and then setting the scenes based on what actions were taken. Pressing either of the KPL buttons directly will toggle the appropriate scenes, so they don't trigger anything in the program. (Else clauses empty and omitted for space.)

 

LampDirectOn - Turn scene on if lamp turned on directly or faded up from medium.

If
       Control 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp' is switched Fast On
    Or Control 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp' is switched On
    Or (
            Status  'Upstairs / Playroom / Keypad By Melanie / Keypad By Melanie - E' is not Off
        And (
                 Control 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp' is switched Fade Up
            )
       )
Then
       Set Scene 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp High' On

LampDirectOff - Turn scene off if lamp turned off directly or faded down from medium.

If
       Control 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp' is switched Fast Off
    Or Control 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp' is switched Off
    Or (
            Status  'Upstairs / Playroom / Keypad By Melanie / Keypad By Melanie - E' is not Off
        And (
                 Control 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp' is switched Fade Down
            )
       )
Then
       Set Scene 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp Med' Off

LampDirectMed - Turn scene to medium if lamp faded up from off or down from high.

If
       (
            Status  'Upstairs / Playroom / Keypad By Melanie / Keypad By Melanie - E' is Off
        And Status  'Upstairs / Playroom / Keypad By Melanie / Keypad By Melanie - F' is Off
        And Control 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp' is switched Fade Up
       )
    Or (
            Status  'Upstairs / Playroom / Keypad By Melanie / Keypad By Melanie - F' is not Off
        And Control 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp' is switched Fade Down
       )
Then
       Set Scene 'Upstairs / Melanie / Melanie Lamp Med' On