trouble with 3-way dimmer switch behavior, pre-set on-levels

[bavery]

I'm running into an issue with the behavior of the 2477D switches in "virtual 3-way" circuits with pre-set on-levels that I am hoping can be fixed with a little extra ISY programming. Basically, the issue I am trying to solve is this:

 

If I set a pre-set on-level of less than 100% for the scene, this is the issue I am experiencing:

 

The switch with the load connected works as expected - A single press "on" of the switch turns everything on to the pre-set on-level, and lights can be easily brightened & dimmed from there. If more light is desired, a second press "on" will bring the lights up to 100%. This is the behavior I would like to replicate with all of the other "remote" switches.

 

What I am actually experiencing with the remotes is that once the scene has been turned on to the pre-set on-level (for example, 70%), a single "on" press of any remote switch has no effect other than to switch that particular switch (and its LED indicator) to 100% on. It doesn't seem to control the scene or any of the linked devices at this point. Looking at the status in ISY, the ISY still shows it as 70%. If I dim or brighten, all linked devices suddenly respond properly again, and ISY will suddenly return to showing the proper state again as well.

 

Is this an issue with the 2477D firmware (these are brand new v.41 switches), or with ISY?

 

And more importantly, what is the best work-around to get things working as expected? Programming to watch the remote switches for status=100% brightness doesn't work as ISY can't seem to see that change in status. The only program I've found that does seem to work is to watch the remote switches for control=switched on, and then to set the scene to fast on, with the entire program nested inside a folder that only allows operation when the status exactly matches whatever the preset on-level is (70% for the example above). Using anything more all-encompasing like status >= 1% results in more weirdness with the lights flickering between 70-100% if the switch is operated when the scene is already at 100%.

 

While the above is acceptable, I would like something that is a little more dummy-proof and doesn't rely on knowing the exact on-level for each set of lights, so that if that on-level is adjusted at some point the program will continue working properly.

 

Any suggestions?

[LeeG]

"Is this an issue with the 2477D firmware (these are brand new v.41 switches), or with ISY?"

 

This is the design of the 2477D. The fact that the load controlling device does something special with the second On tap is limited to that particular switch. The Insteon Scene Responder(s) react to the Responder link record in each Responder device.

 

One approach is to double tap (Fast On) the switch which will turn the load on full and send Fast On to the Responders of the Scene. If that is not acceptable then working around the switch design with an ISY program is another approach.

[bavery]

Thanks. I suppose it's good to know everything is operating "correctly" even though it is somewhat annoying that all switches in a scene mirror the status of each other except for that second tap response. It's not so much that the load controlling device does something special with the second on tap. The more frustrating part I guess is that every other device does this on the second tap too, so you can do the second tap on one of the remote switches and the LED indicator on the switch will show changing to 100% but clearly nothing has happened to the lights you might be trying to control.

 

The double-tap for all-on works of course, but this is not exactly a "wife-approved" work-around as after spending a bunch of money replacing all the switches in the house she rightly feels they should "just work".

 

In any case, I figured it was just going to take some kind of ISY programming work-around, and as I said I have a somewhat workable program. Any suggestions though, on if there's a way to make the program so that it works without modification no matter what on-level the scene is set to?

 

This is what I have now:

 

----Folder------

Folder Conditions for 'Dining Room'

Add conditions to limit when programs in this folder are allowed to run.

 

If

Status 'Dining Rm Lights (master)' is 60%

Or Status 'Dining Rm Lights (rem. 1)' is 60%

 

Then

Allow the programs in this folder to run.

 

-----Program Inside Folder------

If

Control 'Dining Rm Lights (master)' is switched On

Or Control 'Dining Rm Lights (rem. 1)' is switched On

 

Then

Set Scene 'Switch groups / (3-way) Dining Room Lights' Fast On

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[bavery]

Ok, after some more experimentation, I've made some refinements as follows:

 

Folder Conditions for 'Dining Room'

Add conditions to limit when programs in this folder are allowed to run.

 

 

-----------Folder--------------

If

Status 'Dining Rm Lights (master)' >= 1%

Or Status 'Dining Rm Lights (rem. 1)' >= 1%

And-(

| Status 'Dining Rm Lights (master)' is not 100%

| Or Status 'Dining Rm Lights (rem. 1)' is not 100%

-)

 

Then

Allow the programs in this folder to run.

 

 

---------Program in Folder----------

If

Control 'Dining Rm Lights (master)' is switched On

Or Control 'Dining Rm Lights (rem. 1)' is switched On

And Status 'Dining Rm Lights (master)' is not 100%

And Status 'Dining Rm Lights (rem. 1)' is not 100%

 

Then

Set Scene 'Switch groups / (3-way) Dining Room Lights' Fast On

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

-----------------

 

This seems to accomodate for the entire range of pre-set on-levels from 1-99%, but avoids the flicker I was getting when the program would run when lights were already at 100%.

 

I don't really know how to interpret the event viewer, but I think maybe what is happening is that with any single press "on" (regardless of current state of the switch) it is sending the command to the scene and any linked devices to go to the pre-set on-level, however the switch itself actually switches both its load and indicator LED to 100%. This is evidenced by how even with my program running, when lights are at 100% a subsequent tap "on" actually dims them to the pre-set on-level (70% in my case). This is what was causing the flicker at 100% as the switch would send the 70% on-level command and then my program would bring them back up to 100% again a moment later, hence the addition of the exclusions in the revised program to not run the program when at 100%. With the new program, a subsequent press (3rd tap) on still dims them back to 70% but at least they don't do the 70%-100% flicker. Of course it would be nicer if the lights just did nothing if the button was pressed while already at 100%, but it doesn't look like that is possible.

 

In any case, I think I've got things working well now.

 

I understand this issue may be the switches "working as designed" (I've got 20-some dimmers installed throughout the house and they all function the same way), but I'm not convinced this is "working as intended." I do still feel this is a bug that could benefit from being addressed in the future (if any Insteon engineers are listening). Logically, if all switches in a group are linked together as a virtual 3-way circuit, there should be no way for their statuses to get out of sync so easily in normal operation. Without the extra programming, a 2nd tap on of the load switch turns the lights up to 100% without changing the changing the status of the other switches in the group, while a 2nd tap of any of the other switches will change their status to 100% without actually turning the load up to 100%.