Repair of 2413S PLM When the Power Supply Fails

[EngMarc]

I ordered from danu1964’s list so when I received them and went to replace them I found some differences. 

The version I have has two Fujicon 100uF 35v and I had ordered the EKY-500ETD100ME11D 10uF 50v so put those in. They were higher voltage but lower capacitance than the FUJICON. I haven’t had time to check the actual datasheets yet.  

 

>  What do you think would be a good replacement for the FUJICON 100uF 35v capacitor in the stock 2413x board?

 

As for the resistor, it looks like there are two and on the board itself it is labeled ‘R1’ but I don’t see that on the schematic from pg 282. On the schematic, it appears to be labeled R2 or R10 (not sure which one is which on the board but they are next to each other). I took a really close look at the board and there is a possible sloppy solder on C11 near R12 (very close base on C11 to R12). But also see what looks like some brown burn area near C6, R5,  D6, R21. I’m going to go through these to check values and see if there’s a short.

>  I’m trying to figure out what a good R2 27 ohm resistor would be. I’ve looked on Mouser but there’s too many choices. Ideas?

[Brian H]

Looked at a board. Mine are screened R1 and R10. I don't know if the schematic part numbers where what is screened on the board.

The original hardware versions where 10uF 35V capacitors.  So 10uF 50V should have worked.

IMHO. They tried to fix the power supply issues. By increasing the capacity to 100uF and 35V then 50V. Using the same Fujicon  RK series capacitors.

Starting at V2.3. They changed to a Fujicon TY series 100uF/50V. The TY is rated to be in a switching power supply.

I am not too clear on the schematics parts labels matching what is screened on the PCB.

I will see if I can find anything on the 27 Ohm. It was used in many modules. I did see it called a 27 Ohm 1/2 watt Anti Surge on the 2412 main board in the developers notes. Unfortunately it was a surface mount and only for the small current Zero Crossing supply. The Panasonic part number would not be a good one for a 2413. I would measure the original resistor and see if it is open or changed value. As the goop the put around the wires turns brown or blackish and maybe on the resistor also.

 

[Brian H]

Found this.  I would check the dimensions as I don't know about the space to mount it horizontally like the later revision models.

https://www.mouser.com/productdetail/united-chemi-con/ekzm500etd101mhb5d?qs=LzZkAsBncKb0dUGUMFIpLg%3D%3D

[EngMarc]

Here’s pics of my board top and bottom with the R1 resistor removed. 

I checked resistance on most of the resistors and across the capacitors and couldn’t find anything that stuck out. The existing 27 ohm resistor that is original reads about the same as the two pin holes for the removed resistor. So, not sure if it was just a voltage spike that fried the resistor or what?

 

I’ve ordered an isolated 110v power supply so I can futher debug the circuit. I’m going to put in a 27 ohm resistor (probably not the best but wasn’t sure what to replace it with right now) and test out the circuit. I know bad but found some 27 ohm 5% resistors on Amazon so took the plunge to get something to debug with (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0185FERU0/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). If you see something you think from Mouser or Digikey let me know.

[Brian H]

You may want to get the Power Integration data sheet on the LNK354 switching supply IC for reference.

https://www.power.com/sites/default/files/product-docs/lnk353_354.pdf

Hopefully the Drain and Source of the internal power FET are not leaky or shorted.

The Amazon resistors maybe too low a wattage. 1/4 Watt may overheat. Making it hard to determine if the problem was caught and it just over heated.

[EngMarc]

yeah, I wasn’t sure what wattage they needed to be but was ordering some other stuff and thought for $5 free shipping why not try them. 

Let me know if you have any idea on the wattage for the 27 ohm resistor?

[Brian H]

Well I did a test. 2413S PLM not connected to serial port,  just powered up. True RMS Meter reading total AC current into the AC input and calculating the voltage on a 27 Ohm resistor and AC input current 

Just powered up and not processing anything. About 50mW. So for testing a 1/4W maybe OK for tests.

[EngMarc]

Ok, will let you know once they arrive and I start testing. 

Any other values for test points that you have would be helpful. I have the ones from page 282 post:

For reference the voltages I measured across the new capacitors are as follows:

• C3     167VDC
• C7      21.1VDC
• C13    21.1VDC
• C8       4.9VDC
• C11     4.4VDC

[Brian H]

 C3 High Voltage supply looks fine. 

C7 and C13 unregulated 12 Volts  is fine and typical.

C8 +5VDC Logic Supply is with in normal tolerance.

C11 Zero Crossing Detection. Probably fine. I looked at the circuit for the older 2412S. It was around that voltage.

Did you have the serial daughter board connected when the LED faded out?  I think I saw a post here. With out the daughter board connected. The LED did not light but that is a fading memory.

I had seen some reports of the serial chip failing. The V2.3 had an improved IC on it. V2.4 and V2.5 have a new serial board. That has the new serial port IC and some signal protection to the outside world.

I did a current test on my 2413S in use with the ISY994i. During a system query. There where short bursts of 600mA AC to 900mA  AC .

[EngMarc]

sorry for the confusion, those voltages were from the other guys post (I should have removed the ‘I’). I was going to use them as a gauge for my testing.

 

As for the daughter board, yes there is a USB daughter board on this 2413. I can connect it up when testing if that makes more sense. I won’t have it connected to a USB though if there’s a difference I could probably negotiate that setup. My home automation system isn’t anywhere near my test bench though ;).

[Brian H]

OK. The voltages you posted are a good reference as to what you want to see.

When testing you don't have to have the daughter board connected. It would probably get in the way and make it harder to troubleshoot. The C7-C13 voltage maybe slightly higher with no daughter board. As the unregulated +12 volts powers the serial or USB daughter board. That has its own +5 volt regulator.

If the PLM you are testing is V2.3 or lower. On the serial board you can measure the unregulated +12 volts. The metal tab on the regulator IC is common and one of the unused F1 Fuse positions is the voltage into the board.

[EngMarc]

So, received my resistors today from Amazon and they don’t look anything like the one I removed. The one I removed is at least 200 times larger. Any ideas on why the size difference? Here’s a photo.

[Teken]

48 minutes ago, EngMarc said:

So, received my resistors today from Amazon and they don’t look anything like the one I removed. The one I removed is at least 200 times larger. Any ideas on why the size difference? Here’s a photo.

Given the size difference the larger one is more than likely a 2 watt or larger resistor. The one on the left appears to be a standard 1/4 watt resistor - no? 

[EngMarc]

yeah, the one on the left is the Amazon resistor. 

 

I’m going to search for a 2W or something resistor. Ideas on choices? 

I found these but have no idea which is best or if I should go to a higher wattage since it fried (maybe a short or maybe not)?

https://www.alliedelec.com/view/search/?keyword=27+ohm+2W+resistor

Although reading some of the stuff on cermaic resistors seems contrary to the PLM (not tolerant of surges).

[Teken]

4 minutes ago, EngMarc said:

yeah, the one on the left is the Amazon resistor. 

 

I’m going to search for a 2W or something resistor. Ideas on choices? 

I found these but have no idea which is best or if I should go to a higher wattage since it fried (maybe a short or maybe not)?

https://www.alliedelec.com/view/search/?keyword=27+ohm+2W+resistor

 

Either of these 2 watt resistors appear to be fine and without knowing the operating voltage you can pick the 300 volts vs 500 volt. The 2 watt @300 volt appears to be similar to what was inside of the 2413S PLM so you can't go wrong there.

The other one says its flame proof - LOL . . . 

https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/d44ce2bb19ec670cc5afc3c1f91c41cf.pdf

https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/a74b279bad75ea94418b7a9a2e737417.pdf

[EngMarc]

ok, let me see if I can order/get an F2W027 (2w 27ohm 300v).

 

Thanks for the quick response. I’m trying to resurect my PLM. 

Last resort is to buy a newer version but I really want to resurect it instead

[Teken]

1 minute ago, EngMarc said:

ok, let me see if I can order/get an F2W027 (2w 27ohm 300v).

 

Thanks for the quick response. I’m trying to resurect my PLM. 

Last resort is to buy a newer version but I really want to resurect it instead

Let us know how you get on once everything has been replaced & running.

Rock On . . .

[EngMarc]

Just ordered these:

Qty.	Stock#	Mfr. Part #	Cust. Part #	Price (USD)	Total (USD)
4	70723850	1W027		$0.140	$0.56
	RESISTOR 1 WATT METAL OXIDE FILM FLAMEPROOF 27 OHM 2% AXIAL LEAD
4	70725136	F2W027		$0.400	$1.60
	RESISTOR; FUSIBLE 2W 27 OHM 5%
4	70112166	107CKH050M		$0.150	$0.60
	Capacitor, Cap 100 uF, Tol 20%, Vol-Rtg 50 VDC, Radial, 8x11.5, ESR 1.658 Ohms

[Brian H]

Let us know how it progresses.

The 27 Ohm 2W  is a good choice. The 1 Watt may also be OK. 

I did see a reverse engineered schematic of the 2856S Icon On Off module. As that 27 ohm resistor is in many of the older Insteon modules.  By the physical size. They though 2 watts.

[EngMarc]

was told the 1W and 2W resistors are on back order so won’t get my shipment until around end of July or early August.

More to follow…..

[Teken]

38 minutes ago, EngMarc said:

was told the 1W and 2W resistors are on back order so won’t get my shipment until around end of July or early August.

More to follow…..

Some things to note depending upon the age of the 2413S PLM. There was a period where the manufacture used leaded solder vs the more common lead free! If you don't have a quality solder sucker or solder wick. Some have used their compressor to blow off the solder once it reaches its liquid state to avoid damage to the PCB. Insure you have a high temperature soldering iron or air station because its easy to damage the cheap multi layer PCB.  

Even with professional tools on hand its sometimes a challenge to desolder high temperature lead free medium.

[EngMarc]

so for now, going to purchase a new 2413U since it’s mission critical and waiting 2-3 weeks for these resistors is more than I want to put up with. I’ll continue to work on repairing this older version. 

 

I did open up an insteon 2450 serial interface to see what resistors were in it. they appear to be red-brown-black-gold and about the same size 2W or so. I don’t see any part numbers on them so can’t tell where they came from. 

[Brian H]

2413U USB PLM? The PLM is not being used by an ISY994i? As it uses a 2413S  Serial PLM.

The 2450 I/OLinc also the 27 Ohm resistors in it. So you could compare them to your PLM. It also has a switching power supply in it but the DC filter is not the same configuration.

[EngMarc]

yeah, I’m using the 2413 USB version and not the serial version (2413U vs 2413S). Not sure the exact difference as I don’t have a 2413S to compare to but the daughter board is likely the difference rather than the parent board. 

[Brian H]

If you are using a 2413U and different software.  Not an ISY994i connected to it. Then the 2413U maybe what you do  need.

The 2413U is a USB interface with a USB B type connection. It can not interface with an ISY994i as it is strictly a serial port using an  RJ45 network style connector and a network cable between the PLM and the ISY994i.

Page 17 of this thread has a photo in a response showing both the older and newer version of the serial daughter board. A response on page 19 shows the new version of the serial daughter board.

I have seen some excess stock older 2412 PLMs being sold on Ebay by Smartenit.  Main board only, Serial and USB.  The label on the unit may not be the same as the model you purchased. As exchanging the daughter board. Changed its interconnected type.

If in doubt. You can see both types for sale on the Smarthome web site and even download the manuals. The USB model also needs a USB Chip Driver on the computer as the USB PLM has a internal serial to USB chip on its output.