PLM Replacement Issue

[justin.cool]

UD Team…..I need help……

 

I had a thread going under Failure during Device Restore.  As part of the troubleshooting process for that, I was advised to replace my 2412S PLM with the 2413S that I had purchased sometime ago.  Once I replaced the PLM, things appear to have really gone South.  See below……  As a result, I started this thread where I saw some others discuss PLM replacement issues. 

Configuration  Dec 2014

 

ISY-994i IR/PRO, running 4.0.5 and UI 4.0.11

PLM:  Replaced the 2412S with the 2413S as part of this issue

Approximately 120 Insteon devices:

• Mainly Switchlincs, Lamplincs, Outletlincs, On/Off Adapters, etc etc
  10 KPL’s – about 15% are dual band units
  Triggerlincs (2)
  RemoteLincs (3)
  RemoteLinc2 (4)
  Controllincs (2)
  Access Points (4) – 2 on each phase from each subpanel
  Dualband LampLinc dimmers (4)
  Dual Band 240V load controller (2) (Normal Open, dual band)
  Signal Linc (2)
  Venstar Thermostats (3) with V2 RF interface
  EZRain/EZFlora Irrigation Controller v.92
   

House is about 4000 sq feet, two floors, but spread out.

• Two primary subpanels, one secondary.  Secondary is dedicated to dryer, pool filter and water feature, and some outdoor outlets on the patio. 
• Both primary panels each have a signal linc installed in the panels. 
• Both primary panels have Leviton 51110-1 120/240 120/240 Volt Single-Phase Panel surge protectors. 
• All power strips in use in the house are either filtered via X-10 Pro 20 A in line or 15A plug in filters, or do NOT have any surge suppression or noise filtering.
• No UPS in the system.
• Numerous other devices are filtered via one of the above or a simple X-10 5A plug in filter or a Leviton in line 5A filter.
• All thermostat dongles (T1, T2 and T3) are Rev 2.2R

Replacing my PLM – 2412S out and 2413S in

 Disabled all programs

• Plugged in the new PLM, then powered up the ISY
• Went to Admin Console and initiated Restore Modem
• Left the room to let the restore take place
• Returned some time later and found about 20 of the “Cannot communicate with……..” dialog boxes in the admin console.  (See Event Viewer for the PLM Restore).  Also, in the admin console each of the 20 devices had the little green “0110” icon indicating that updates were required. 
• Went to all my RF devices and put them one at a time in Programming mode and initiated Updates for each.  That seemed to work OK.
• I then went to each of the non-RF devices that had a “Cannot communicate…..” dialog box and initiated Update Device for each.  This seemed to complete successfully for the first 5 or 6 devices, then I got the “Cannot communicate” dialog box again for several devices. 
• I ran Device Links Table / Compare on several of the problem devices and got some matches and some mismatches on all of those.  I attempted to do a Device Restore and got “Cannot communicate…..” dialog box again on several of them. 
• I then attempted to do a Device Restore on a device that had NOT had any communication issues.  The restore device appears to complete in less than 1 second, and the event viewer only has two lines in it, then nothing, see below: (NOTE:  The event viewer was in level 3). 

Sun 12/07/2014 10:40:35 PM : [    A B7 7 1] Preparing Device 'Lvng Rm China Cab Li' for Restore

Sun 12/07/2014 10:40:35 PM : [    A B7 7 1] Device 'Lvng Rm China Cab Li' ready for Full Restore

•  I did some further troubleshooting on Monday, 8 Dec, and initially got the same result, ie ONLY the two lines above in the event viewer.  I then powered down the ISY and PLM, powered up the PLM first, then the ISY, and a Device Restore generated lots of events in the event viewer, as I would have expected.  However, the Device Restore eventually failed, the same error I saw above, “Cannot communicate…..”   I then ran it again and this time it got all the way through without any communication errors being reported, and the event viewer generated lots of data. 
• At this point, I think it is safe to say that I have some noise and/or signal suckers somewhere in the system.  However, I don’t know if my PLM is functioning as it should, albeit with noise in the system.  In other words, I feel I need to get back to some baseline or at least do some troubleshooting or whatever to verify that the PLM itself is NOT part of the problem.  Then I can go after noise and signal suckers! 

Any guidance from the UD Team would be greatly appreciated. 

ISY-Events-Log.v4.2.66__Fri 2014.12.05 04.06.58 PM_New PLM.txt

[justin.cool]

UPDATE

 

I had been trying to figure out what could be causing noise problems across my ENTIRE system, including 3 power subpanels.  Could it be bad CFL?  Some of the new LED spots and can lightsI installed?  Then it dawned on me, I have installed 5 Sonos players, 1 Sonos connect, and 2 bridge units in the past 9 months.   And they are spread across the entire house, from workshop to the Master Bath. 

 

Has anyone else experienced this?  If so, was the solution as simple as filtering all of the units? 

 

Could the Sonos RF network being contributing to the problem as well?

 

Justin

[Teken]

First confirm proper coupling / bridging via the 4 tap beacon test outlined in the full users manual in the dual band products you own. 

 

If that does not pass, correct it till it does.

 

After I can tell you with 100% certainty if you unplug all the electronic devices in the house. Then, plug one of them and watch your COM's.

 

Once you see COM's degrade or drop leave that item unplugged. Continue on this path until every item is back on line this is the only sure way to know.

 

The process only needs to be done once and its painful for a house full of gizmo's. But, rest assured if you do this you will know 100% what it isn't opposed to guessing. A client asked me was this all necessary and needed?

 

My reply to him was, do you like to be happy?  

[stusviews]

UPDATE

 

I had been trying to figure out what could be causing noise problems across my ENTIRE system, including 3 power subpanels.  Could it be bad CFL?  Some of the new LED spots and can lightsI installed?  Then it dawned on me, I have installed 5 Sonos players, 1 Sonos connect, and 2 bridge units in the past 9 months.   And they are spread across the entire house, from workshop to the Master Bath. 

 

Has anyone else experienced this?  If so, was the solution as simple as filtering all of the units? 

 

Could the Sonos RF network being contributing to the problem as well?

 

Justin

 

Unplug or disconnect power from all the sonos devices. Just turning things off is not adequate. Does that help? If so, then filters can help. If not, then there's a different source of interference.

[arw01]

Sometimes it's the weirdest items that cause the issue. My sony tablet charger can completely kill all signal at any outlet it's plugged into.  I put a filter on a 12" extension pigtail and wala, full communications.

 

But unplugging and trying certainly is away to do it, some folks turn off whole breakers to issolate areas of the house that are the problem.

[Brian H]

I have seen a test of an inexpensive cell phone charger. That put so much garbage on the power line at  close to both the X10 and the Insteon power line frequency

 

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cellet_noise.pdf