Device sometimes doesn't respond to program

[MustangChris04]

Hi all, 

 

I have a program to turn off 3 Insteon devices at 3:00am. Sometimes one of the devices does not respond to the program and will stay on the entire night. 2 of the devices are the new Insteon Dual on/off outlet. and the other is a lamplinc. The device that does not respond sometimes is "33.3A.76". The lamplinc is "2E.4D.BA" and the other dual on/off outlet is "33.38.FA"

 

This is all that I have in my event viewer at that time and I only see two events for the device that did not respond: 

 

Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 3A 76 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [ 33 3A 76 1] ST 0

 

Any ideas on what to do to diagnose? Thanks!

Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [        Time] 20:54:19 4(0)
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 00 00 4E CF 13 00
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 00.00.4E CF 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00)
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [33 38 FA 1] [ST] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [  33 38 FA 1]       ST   0
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [2E 4D BA 1] [ST] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [  2E 4D BA 1]       ST   0
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [33 3A 76 1] [ST] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [  33 3A 76 1]       ST   0
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [VAR  2    8 ]       -1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:29 PM : [VAR  2    8 ]       1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:32 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 1F.AD.74 00.00.01 CB 11 00    LTONRR (00)
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:32 PM : [Std-Group   ] 1F.AD.74-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:32 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [1F AD 74 1] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:32 PM : [  1F AD 74 1]      DON   0
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:32 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [2A 7 B2 1] [ST] [255] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:32 PM : [   2A 7 B2 1]       ST 255
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:32 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [1F AD 74 1] [ST] [255] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:32 PM : [  1F AD 74 1]       ST 255
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:33 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 1F.AD.74 11.03.01 CB 06 00           (00)
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:33 PM : [Std-Group   ] 1F.AD.74-->11.03.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:33 PM : [INST-INFO   ] Previous message ignored.
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:38 PM : [VAR  2    8 ]       -1

[LeeG]

Run the Program a few minutes earlier.  3AM is the same time the QueryAll runs.

 

The event trace is not covering 3AM 

[MustangChris04]

Thanks LeeG, I will change the event to a few minutes before. 

 

The event log that is shown above was for when I manually right clicked the program and selected "Run Then". I did this at 8:54PM and it happened to not work at that time either. 

[EricK]

Are you turning off scenes or individual devices. Do you have individual commands for each light? If so Try adding a 2 second wait in between each then command in the program.

E

Edit:

Or create a scene including the three lights and then turn off that scene.

[LeeG]

The Scene Off was issued and the ISY marked what the devices should have done, turn Off.   An ISY Scene gets no feedback (ACKs) from the devices and there are no retries.  If a device does not react to an ISY Scene it is usually the result of poor comm.  Since there are no ACKs back each device has a single opportunity to respond to the Scene command.

 

Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [ Time] 20:54:19 4(0)
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 4E CF 13 00
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.4E CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 38 FA 1] [ST] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [ 33 38 FA 1] ST 0
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2E 4D BA 1] [ST] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [ 2E 4D BA 1] ST 0
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 3A 76 1] [ST] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 12/22/2014 08:54:18 PM : [ 33 3A 76 1] ST 0

[LeeG]

Have the event trace running at LEVEL 3.  From the Admin Console turn each device On and Off a few times.   Look at the Hops Left=x counts and if an ACK is actually received.  This will show how well PLM to device comm is working.

[MustangChris04]

Thanks Guys. 

 

Erik, it is controlling a scene with 3 devices. 

 

LeeG, 

 

After turning the switch on/off several times, the Hops Left were sometimes 1, and sometimes 0 but I never had an issue with the command not going through. 

[oberkc]

MustangChris04,

 

The remaining hops count tends to suggest the need to repeat some of the command until acknowledged by the device. As mentioned earlier, these acknowledgements and repeats dont happen with scene commands. I take these indications of less-than-optimum communications.

 

By your post count, I am hoping you have heard the common suggestions about phase coupling and avoiding electronic gadgets on the same circuit as your PLM. If not, start there.

[MustangChris04]

Thanks oberkc, 

 

I do have an Insteon 2406H phase coupler installed , and several FilterLincs on all my UPS, televisions, and other electronics. On the same circuit of my PLM I have two UPS but both of those have a FilterLinc. Not sure what else could be causing communication problems. 

[oberkc]

Normally, I have had good luck with filterlincs.  You could always try the standard test, where you get an extension cord an use it to plug the PLM into a different circuit.  If that works, it tends to suggest something on the circuit is a problem-causer.

 

Is EVERYTHING on that circuit filtered?  Is there anything else on that circuit not on the UPS?

[LeeG]

The 2406H is a passive coupler, taking the Insteon signal on one 120v leg and coupling it to the other 120v leg WITHOUT any adjustment.  If the Insteon signal arrives at the power panel at reduced signal level, which is normal, it starts on the other 120v leg at that reduced signal level.

 

I suggest using a pair of Range Extenders (were called Access Points) to perform coupling. 

 

EDIT: that way the coupled Insteon signal starts at maximum signal strength. 

[MustangChris04]

Everything on the circuit is filtered except my garage door opener. 

 

LeeG, all my 100+ devices in the house are dual band. Wouldn't those function the same as the range extenders?

[LeeG]

That question is best answered by doing the 4 tap Set button test which will show what devices are receiving the RF test message and whether they are on the same or opposite 120v leg.

[MustangChris04]

Hi LeeG, 

 

After doing the 4 tap set button, the majority of my devices were blinking red (same phase) but all the devices in my master bathroom and my guest bedroom were blinking green (opposite phase). If I have the Insteon hardwire phase coupler, shouldn't all my devices be blinking red? When turning off the two 15a breakers for the phase coupler, it had no affect on the colors of the lights that were blinking on the devices. 

 

I also had two keypads not blink at all. They are Model #2486D. I'm guessing those are two keypads I forgot to swap out with dual band devices?

[LeeG]

The 2406H is passively coupling the powerline only.  It has no RF capability so no affect on RF test.   

[LeeG]

Does the LampLinc show being on the opposite 120v leg as the PLM?

[oberkc]

Everything on the circuit is filtered except my garage door opener.

 

Some have reported comm problems from garage door openers.  My perception is that it is relatively rare, but worth checking into.  Does the problem go away if you unplug it?

[MustangChris04]

Does the LampLinc show being on the opposite 120v leg as the PLM?

Would I check this by reading the LED on the PLM?

 

Some have reported comm problems from garage door openers.  My perception is that it is relatively rare, but worth checking into.  Does the problem go away if you unplug it?

I've ordered a filterlinc, but it is only 10-amp. Do you think the average 1/2HP garage opener is a 15a?

[stusviews]

Would I check this by reading the LED on the PLM?

 

I've ordered a filterlinc, but it is only 10-amp. Do you think the average 1/2HP garage opener is a 15a?

 

You can check if a dual-band device is on the same or opposite leg of the split, single-phase electric supply by using the 4-tap or Beacon test described in most dual-band devices' Owner's Manual.

 

A 1/2 HP garage door motor typically uses less than 5 amps.

[MustangChris04]

Also, if I have two identical keypads on the same breaker, in the same 4-gang box, with the same hot, neutral, and ground, why would one switch always have 2-hops left when testing the communication from the PLM and another always have 1 or 0 hops left?

[stusviews]

Hops remaining include until the responder acknowledges receiving the command.

[LeeG]

I would look at the type of load the KPL is controlling (the one with 1 and 0 Hops Left).  Disconnect the Red load wire at KPL and see if that improves the Hops Left count.

 

Could one KPL be Dual Band and the other not?

 

As far as LampLinc, tap PLM Set button 4 times and look at LampLinc results.