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Story: The Company That's Crushing Apple And Samsung In China Plans To Take Over Your Entire Home


paulbates

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by :Lisa Eadicicco, Business Insider

link to article: http://www.businessinsider.com/xiaomi-smart-home-2015-1

 

Chinese smartphone maker Xiaomi, which passed both Apple and Samsung to become the most popular smartphone maker in China last year, just announced a new connected home strategy. During the company's new smartphone announcement, it revealed plans to create an attachable module that can transform any ordinary household gadget like a lamp or coffee maker into a "smart" device, according to Tech In Asia.

 

Xiaomi would sell the modules to third-party gadget and appliance makers, but the devices would be controlled using the company's own app. It's unclear exactly how the modules will be sold and when Xiaomi will start selling them to vendors.

 

This idea that Xiaomi is getting into the smart home space isn't necessarily new, but it provides some insight as to what type of approach the company is taking. Back in October, the company unveiled a handful of smart home gadgets like the Mi Smart Power Plug and the Ants smart webcam, but now we have a clearer idea of where Xiaomi's smart home strategy is headed.

 

Xiaomi is one of many consumer tech companies working on internet-connected home appliances. Apple announced its HomeKit platform in June, which would essentially act as a hub for smart home gadgets. Samsung said at this year's Consumer Electronics Showcase that 100% of its products will focus on the Internet of Things within five years.
 

 

My Comments: My strategy for all of this HA newness is to continue with ISY/Insteon and wait & see. While low price is highlighted in all of the new entrants, we know that the powerline is a hostile place even for Smartlabs, with years of experience. Does low price mean cheap caps and other pitfalls for the new entrants to learn? The risks out weigh the rewards as I see them.

 

The functionalities being introduced across all of the new contenders seems to be "turn on your lights, open your garage door, turn down the heat. etc". Nothing new, and the potential to lose ground that I've already taken.

 

The good news is that all of these new entrants will force SmartLabs, and other established players, to consider the price point of their existing HA products. With so many new markets for Insteon products, economies of scale should also give that some room. Last year's Christmas sales gave us a taste of what is possible. I will probably hold off on big Insteon purchases for a while. Let the HA battles rage online and in the isles of costco and homedepot.

 

It's going to be a very interesting few years coming up. Fasten your seatbelts!

 

Paul

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Paul,

 

I too am sitting back and watching to see how the landscape gets re shaped and what falls out.

 

I foreshadow more Insteon 4 packs at the price points we saw for XMAS. Smartlabs has shown they have enough demand where production has finally pushed production costs down.

 

All the while still making healthy profits. The fact Costco sells the 4 packs at everyday sale prices indicates profits can be had at the same time.

 

This is clearly off set by the vendors who sell Insteon products at a premium price point like HD etc.

 

I have been watching the Z-Wave camp build up their alliance and their wares. It's interesting to see a few companies going into the whole energy management / monitoring aspect. But all if them have lots of work to do in this area.

 

Some of the hardware I played with and compared their energy readings to my GEM was like a Cheavet vs Corvette!

 

If any company released reliable, consistent, and accurate HA devices which allow energy readings to be seen and acted upon in the next five years.

 

I will rip out every Insteon device in my home to have it!

 

Noting, it goes without saying they have a real market life I could count on. Right now this is a massive fad.

 

This is great for the guys like you and me. As it creates new opportunities and hardware not seen in this small HA space. The downside is the massive collapse of major players / small players who see the tidal wave receding back.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I personally see 2 markets shaping up. like you have with everything else. A low end and a high end (I dont include luxury/ultra luxury since they always have a market to themselves). Xiaomi can come out with low cost items all they want as will others. Will there be a market for them? Yes. However there will be a separate market for the Insteon's, zwaves, and hue's of the world. As they stated they are looking for app based control. That is fine to a certain degree. But there will be customers (especially as it becomes more prevalent) who want more automation and integration. I don't see either Insteon or Zwave dropping prices. I see them adding features and additional value to their products and keeping things at the same price point. What people fail to realize is they make cheap products but little profit. If the price to produce a switch can drop, why not keep your profit the same and differentiate yourself by adding things your competitors can't. I don't see Insteon, Zwave alliance partners, nor zigbee partners trying to win a race to the bottom. That race will actually limit growth and progression due to lack of finances. There will be customers who want a compact car and there will be those who want higher end

 

Samsung is the dark horse. They want an open ecosystem. With their broad range of electronics, they can truly integrate the home. With that said, there is a reason that you don't see them, Google, and Apple rushing to make switches etc. Lay the framework down, and allow customers to grow their home automation in their ecosystems.  For customers who don't want to be tied into a particular ecosystem, that is where the ISY can shine. If they can adapt with the market they can maintain and achieve growth in a space that the big 3 are lacking...True integration for those who want more. At some point hubs will be a thing of the past. Chips will be in everything including routers. At that point all you will need is an app. Home automation however will need more. The ability to truly customize down to the minute detail.

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I personally see 2 markets shaping up. like you have with everything else. A low end and a high end (I dont include luxury/ultra luxury since they always have a market to themselves). Xiaomi can come out with low cost items all they want as will others. Will there be a market for them? Yes. However there will be a separate market for the Insteon's, zwaves, and hue's of the world. As they stated they are looking for app based control. That is fine to a certain degree. But there will be customers (especially as it becomes more prevalent) who want more automation and integration. I don't see either Insteon or Zwave dropping prices. I see them adding features and additional value to their products and keeping things at the same price point. What people fail to realize is they make cheap products but little profit. If the price to produce a switch can drop, why not keep your profit the same and differentiate yourself by adding things your competitors can't. I don't see Insteon, Zwave alliance partners, nor zigbee partners trying to win a race to the bottom. That race will actually limit growth and progression due to lack of finances. There will be customers who want a compact car and there will be those who want higher end

 

Samsung is the dark horse. They want an open ecosystem. With their broad range of electronics, they can truly integrate the home. With that said, there is a reason that you don't see them, Google, and Apple rushing to make switches etc. Lay the framework down, and allow customers to grow their home automation in their ecosystems.  For customers who don't want to be tied into a particular ecosystem, that is where the ISY can shine. If they can adapt with the market they can maintain and achieve growth in a space that the big 3 are lacking...True integration for those who want more. At some point hubs will be a thing of the past. Chips will be in everything including routers. At that point all you will need is an app. Home automation however will need more. The ability to truly customize down to the minute detail.

 

I always love reading your counter points! 

 

Its true, if the race is to the bottom you will soon lose market share and net income. This has been seen by both Google, Amazon, Intel, Samsung.

 

Apple continues to be the most profitable hand set maker out of any manufacturer in the world. Its not because they strive to super saturate the market with cheap wares like Samsung has with every Android phone known to man. They have lost the battle and every article I have read thus far shows the massive losses this department has accured.

 

I also agree on some level we may be seeing more chip enabled devices before too long. I really think its silly to bring back the whole TV in the fridge thing which was all the rage back in the day. I do have high hopes in the *Virtual Glass* concept where surfaces can be keyboards, monitors, sensors, etc.

 

These things make sense and can be integrated into almost anything a person owns or has in place. Whether it be a table, counter, window, mirror, car surface etc.

 

I also agree if you offer more value than price isn't a sticking point. One only has to look at all the fools like myself and others who shelled out hard earned cash for a iDevice!

 

The key things I concede about Apple is their ability to create a long term eco system which has potential and long service life. I also love the over build quality of their products.

 

Anyone who has ever held a iPhone knows when you compare it to a Samsung plastic toy. You really feel like you got something in your hand and its solid. Hold on to a Mac Book Pro and see the clean lines and the ultra fine uni-body, amazing!

 

Use and touch the Apple TV remote, along with the wireless key board, excellent!

 

Having said this they too have failings and that is comparative vendors offer much better performance when comparing PC / laptops. Their computer OS has catered to the ultra dumb regardless of how painful it is to work in the Window OS environment at times.

 

Ultimately this is a great time for those like you and I who want to see the HA space grow. My fear is watching some of the big players either leave or head into another direction. This is after many folks have purchased thousands of dollars in HA devices.

 

In the end as much as I dislike the whole Apple closed eco system only they are capable of getting the iSheep and the rest to invest into their eco system. If there is going to be a glue that binds HA together it might as well be Apple! 

 

It doesn't matter if its Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Samsung, they are doomed to fail because each and everyone of those companies are run by fools. I will continue to support Smartlabs / Insteon because they have proven in most aspects to offer the best looking, solid, and feature rich devices in the market.

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Teken,

 

I also appreciate your comments towards my counterpoints. Your apple/samsung comparison was who I had in mind when I commented on the race to the bottom. Now your seeing Samsung following suit. Let the others have that bottom market. Make a great product, price it where it is affordable yet nice profit margins that you can put back in your company. It's only a matter of time before Xiaomi and others are forced to raise prices or risk being stuck where they are. Look at Hyundai and Kia. They started out in the low end and they had to upgrade their offerings and price to grow.

 

I use both Insteon and Zwave in my home. Because of the multiple vendors Im going to use Zwave for my comparison. Low end cheap Zwave products rarely work with well or with 3rd party controllers. Upgrade to the more expensive brands and support is unquestioned along with additional features such as instant status. As people gain more knowledge, what will happen? Those who can't afford or don't want to truly invest will go with Zwave no name dimmer switch. Those who want a little more capability will go with Name brand for 50-60 bucks and not deal with the hassle. 

 

The market will fix itself. Im with you in that I am worried about all these fly by night companies popping up. KIck starter while good for tech individuals (IMO), can also kill home automation. It will prevent people from pursuing things simply because they don't want to invest in something that disappears 6 months later. Those that invest can be turned off and not want to reinvest. Personally, I would and I will invest in Insteon and Zwave (in products that insteon falls short). Both have enough market share that I can see them riding out the turbulent years that are upcoming. Both have history and a jump on everyone else. While some products are looking promising and Outright jaw dropping, I will take the tried and true. 

 

It's apples closed system that scares me most. It limits growth long term. Samsung's approach is more my style. If they can keep their system open, (easier integration if you have their products), then you can truly have a connected home.

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Teken,

 

I also appreciate your comments towards my counterpoints. Your apple/samsung comparison was who I had in mind when I commented on the race to the bottom. Now your seeing Samsung following suit. Let the others have that bottom market. Make a great product, price it where it is affordable yet nice profit margins that you can put back in your company. It's only a matter of time before Xiaomi and others are forced to raise prices or risk being stuck where they are. Look at Hyundai and Kia. They started out in the low end and they had to upgrade their offerings and price to grow.

 

I use both Insteon and Zwave in my home. Because of the multiple vendors Im going to use Zwave for my comparison. Low end cheap Zwave products rarely work with well or with 3rd party controllers. Upgrade to the more expensive brands and support is unquestioned along with additional features such as instant status. As people gain more knowledge, what will happen? Those who can't afford or don't want to truly invest will go with Zwave no name dimmer switch. Those who want a little more capability will go with Name brand for 50-60 bucks and not deal with the hassle. 

 

The market will fix itself. Im with you in that I am worried about all these fly by night companies popping up. KIck starter while good for tech individuals (IMO), can also kill home automation. It will prevent people from pursuing things simply because they don't want to invest in something that disappears 6 months later. Those that invest can be turned off and not want to reinvest. Personally, I would and I will invest in Insteon and Zwave (in products that insteon falls short). Both have enough market share that I can see them riding out the turbulent years that are upcoming. Both have history and a jump on everyone else. While some products are looking promising and Outright jaw dropping, I will take the tried and true. 

 

It's apples closed system that scares me most. It limits growth long term. Samsung's approach is more my style. If they can keep their system open, (easier integration if you have their products), then you can truly have a connected home.

 

I too am waiting to see how Samsung unfolds into the HA Space with their Smarthings. Your experience with Z-Wave mirrors mine in that there are countless cheap devices which simply don't feel and operate well.

 

If this is the first Z-Wave product for a person and its a complete POS that taints their view about the protocol and HA as a whole. Its the whole you only get one chance to make a good impression that drives the market these days. I am very happy UDI decided to support Z-Wave as an alternate protocol as this ensures long term growth for them.

 

But also provides a measure of safety for those using Insteon.

 

My biggest gripe is Smartlabs has not pushed to get their wares integrated into other 3rd party devices / products. The fact they have held on this long all by themselves for so many years is pretty impressive this I have to admit.

 

But, Joe Dada needs to push his Insteon protocol where its being used in all hardware / software solutions. They should be giving away PLM chips to every security alarm company. They should be giving away PLM chips to those who make HVAC devices.

 

They should be giving away PLM chips that can integrate into any electrical / electronic device made. The goal is to allow 3rd party vendors the ability to offer HA and why not Insteon??

 

Depending upon the device it could be as simple as telling you its On / Off, how much energy its consumed. When you can literally plug in your kettle and know its on / off, then receive a report it ran for 99 hours that month and it costs you $1.24??

 

That is true integration and makes sense!

 

Add it to a TV, it can turn it on/off, schedule, lock out, report duration, consumption . . . Integration is the key here not another wall wort, or a outlet.

 

Allow open source where tens of millions of highly skilled Dev's can code and make widgets, plugins, what ever to support and spread the HA wealth and dream. Lots of us have been trying to get some kind of geo location to help manage, schedule, or presence detection.

 

Include this in the car, phone, I don't care!

 

Now, you have a growing eco system that is natively supported at the device level not some kludge device stuck to the wall. This makes it seamless, elegant, natural in its use because its built in. Mark my words the first company that sells or gives away their chip to support their protocol will win the HA Space and win the race!

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I agree with all of your points and I see Insteon going in that way. It's starting already. You see it with them opening the HUB 2 api to developers. The release of development notes etc. Insteon is growing. From the start Insteon needed to perfect itself. Remember the days of the many issues of devices. By controlling every segment and perfecting it, when the day comes it will be ready for any and everyone. While Insteon was going through its growing pains, imagine all the other devices out there that could've had issues. Imagine in the future now, devices without those issues. When I look at Zwave and all of it's issues I am happy Insteon has gone this route. 

 

I am with you on the ISY. I am excited about 5.0. I look forward to being able to add wifi based devices via virtual nodes. That will allow true ease with integrating everything in such a broken field and give the ability to truly integrate most segments of the home.

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I agree with all of your points and I see Insteon going in that way. It's starting already. You see it with them opening the HUB 2 api to developers. The release of development notes etc. Insteon is growing. From the start Insteon needed to perfect itself. Remember the days of the many issues of devices. By controlling every segment and perfecting it, when the day comes it will be ready for any and everyone. While Insteon was going through its growing pains, imagine all the other devices out there that could've had issues. Imagine in the future now, devices without those issues. When I look at Zwave and all of it's issues I am happy Insteon has gone this route. 

 

I am with you on the ISY. I am excited about 5.0. I look forward to being able to add wifi based devices via virtual nodes. That will allow true ease with integrating everything in such a broken field and give the ability to truly integrate most segments of the home.

 

Absolutely agree on all counts!

 

I believe when 5.XX comes out this whole Z-Wave option might be worthy of consideration for me. Right now there are too many holes in the current release that I am not willing to take on. I do believe though that our generation will see huge strides in the HA space and it won't be just a quick blink as it was so many other times.

 

I am often shocked to read how many loyal fans there are still using X10!

 

This protocol should have died off 20 years ago but it illustrates low cost parts still sell. If you offer features that the average person can accept with the limitations imposed by the protocol people will give you a pass.

 

You mentioned KS Projects earlier on and do have a counter point with respect to this. I see this as great opportunity for those with an idea to earn funding and bring a pipe dream into reality. Not very many folks are able to go to a bank and secure a loan for a *What If* project so the Indigogo, / Kick Starter are great platforms.

 

As you also mentioned its a dual edge sword because there have been quite a lot of HA gear from bulbs, switches, outlets, that simply are piss poor and just take away the whole HA as it was intended. I too love living on the bleeding edge of technology but always have to temper my enthusiasm with thinking how long will they be around?

 

I have supported 7 projects via KS and a few half dozen via the other site. I would say 90% worked out as expected and the last 10% were meh . . .

 

Got the product but its literally the whole *Promise A lot, Get Very Little* vs *Under Promise - Over Deliver* 

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  • 2 months later...

It's apples closed system that scares me most. It limits growth long term. 

 

If you're referring to HomeKit then it's simply a framework (a common language) one that simplifies the current state of home automation. How is that a closed system, and how does it limit growth? 

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In my application of HA, it is to make my life easier, not turn me into an obsessive compulsive.

 

The ISY allows me to automate anything it can interface with. I literally never have to touch a light switch in my home or never have to manually arm my Elk. And with geofence notifications using Mobilinc HD, my garage door automatically opens when I get within 100m of my home.

 

I do not envision HomeKit, or the equivalent from others, offering that level of automation. It only allows one to use your smartphone as a touch or voice remote control. Unless I am mistaken, the AppleTV only functions as a remote access hub. Your AppleTV and iPhone will likely need to be logged into the same iCloud account for this to work, thus dependent on more infrastructure to function. I also foresee there will be conflicts in a home with multiple iOS devices controlling the same HomeKit devices.

 

The only dependency with the ISY for my HA to continue to function, even when I am on vacation, is power. My router, Internet access, cell phone service are only required for remote control.

 

It basically comes down to a centralized vs distributed approach. The distributed approach will likely lower the initial price entry point, but will end up costing more and work less reliably as one adds more devices to the home. A centralized system has a higher price entry point and takes more time and effort to set up. HomeKit and others will be for novices who are clueless about HA or don't want to invest the time and energy. I see HomeKit and others as a threat to the DIY HA industry as it continues dumbing down HA and perhaps forcing otherwise profitable companies out of business.

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In my application of HA, it is to make my life easier, not turn me into an obsessive compulsive.

 

The ISY allows me to automate anything it can interface with. I literally never have to touch a light switch in my home or never have to manually arm my Elk. And with geofence notifications using Mobilinc HD, my garage door automatically opens when I get within 100m of my home.

 

I do not envision HomeKit, or the equivalent from others, offering that level of automation. It only allows one to use your smartphone as a touch or voice remote control. Unless I am mistaken, the AppleTV only functions as a remote access hub. Your AppleTV and iPhone will likely need to be logged into the same iCloud account for this to work, thus dependent on more infrastructure to function. I also foresee there will be conflicts in a home with multiple iOS devices controlling the same HomeKit devices.

 

The only dependency with the ISY for my HA to continue to function, even when I am on vacation, is power. My router, Internet access, cell phone service are only required for remote control.

 

It basically comes down to a centralized vs distributed approach. The distributed approach will likely lower the initial price entry point, but will end up costing more and work less reliably as one adds more devices to the home. A centralized system has a higher price entry point and takes more time and effort to set up. HomeKit and others will be for novices who are clueless about HA or don't want to invest the time and energy. I see HomeKit and others as a threat to the DIY HA industry as it continues dumbing down HA and perhaps forcing otherwise profitable companies out of business.

I agree on many points made here. I believe there is a place for cloud services but only if it's used to it fullest potential and not forced down your throat like many have tried to do.

 

As you mentioned earlier lots of these services have been created for the lazy, inept, and dumb.

 

At the core every product that uses a controller should operate at a basic / advanced level. The cloud should offer the ability to store data like settings, scenes, programming, last change events, error logs, updates, remote access, etc.

 

This would be simply a back up or fail over method to access and control the system should it be required.

 

It should NOT be the primary method to have command and control of a system. If they said if you want guest, secondary user access control and this must come from the cloud.

 

Hey that's fine!

 

The other biggest knock against this whole cloud hosted services is you never know how long it's going to be around!

 

We all saw this with Google Power Meter, Microsoft Hohm in terms of energy tracking etc.

 

There have been countless other cloud hosted services that have simply vanished over the years without notice or regard to the end clients.

 

Let's see how all of this shakes out in the next five years. I am eager to see what transpires out of this whole Apple Home Kit.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

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Ultimately I see only 2 real end games: convergence on a single set of interlocking standards or the development of really effective integration platforms that support multiple standards (as ISY is trying to do with Insteon and Zwave).  The history of the tech industry pretty much demonstrates that one of these is always the endpoint.  Users ultimately don't want to have to choose a single company for all time.  (I think long term this is a real danger to Apple - their challenge will be to open up at the right pace lest the proliferation of competitors in all their various submarkets finally overwhelm the Apple-everywhere approach.).  All this said I think ISY is well positioned but have one large concern.  I have watched their approach to development for a couple of years now and their attitude toward new directions.  If they ultimately want to succeed at being an integrative platform they need to make sure that their internal technology (i.e., the way their software is structured and built) is up to the task.  That requires an architecture that is open to easily plug in and integrate new things as they come along - whether by UD or by others.  I have no evidence but in reading their comments on this board they don't seem to be there yet - perhaps moving that way.  But their mindset is still too closed for me to be convinced they actually will get it.  A responsive platform needs to be able to support a new set of devices virtually immediately and without a major release cycle - theirs doesn't appear ready for that.  A responsive platform needs to be able to operate both at high levels where the platform takes care of stuff for you but also at lower levels that allow early integration of new capabilities by the user communities (think browsers).  Again - not UD's current mindset.  Don't get me wrong - I am rooting for UD and think they have a good starting point.  But I am far from convinced that they really understand what moving from a niche world to the "big" computer/communications technology world will take in terms of not being left behind.  I say all this as someone who spent 40 years in the middle of the computer industry and participated and drove a number of the standards that you all take for granted today.  Finding the effective balance between open and controlled, between fast and "correct", between free and monetized is very hard and takes the right mindset.  So far I'm not sure I see that at UD.

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Ultimately I see only 2 real end games: convergence on a single set of interlocking standards or the development of really effective integration platforms that support multiple standards (as ISY is trying to do with Insteon and Zwave).  The history of the tech industry pretty much demonstrates that one of these is always the endpoint.  Users ultimately don't want to have to choose a single company for all time.  (I think long term this is a real danger to Apple - their challenge will be to open up at the right pace lest the proliferation of competitors in all their various submarkets finally overwhelm the Apple-everywhere approach.).  All this said I think ISY is well positioned but have one large concern.  I have watched their approach to development for a couple of years now and their attitude toward new directions.  If they ultimately want to succeed at being an integrative platform they need to make sure that their internal technology (i.e., the way their software is structured and built) is up to the task.  That requires an architecture that is open to easily plug in and integrate new things as they come along - whether by UD or by others.  I have no evidence but in reading their comments on this board they don't seem to be there yet - perhaps moving that way.  But their mindset is still too closed for me to be convinced they actually will get it.  A responsive platform needs to be able to support a new set of devices virtually immediately and without a major release cycle - theirs doesn't appear ready for that.  A responsive platform needs to be able to operate both at high levels where the platform takes care of stuff for you but also at lower levels that allow early integration of new capabilities by the user communities (think browsers).  Again - not UD's current mindset.  Don't get me wrong - I am rooting for UD and think they have a good starting point.  But I am far from convinced that they really understand what moving from a niche world to the "big" computer/communications technology world will take in terms of not being left behind.  I say all this as someone who spent 40 years in the middle of the computer industry and participated and drove a number of the standards that you all take for granted today.  Finding the effective balance between open and controlled, between fast and "correct", between free and monetized is very hard and takes the right mindset.  So far I'm not sure I see that at UD.

 

 

Lots of good observations and points made.

 

I believe if Insteon, Zwave, Zigbee, would all have a plug and play approach it would make the controller portion a lot easier for all parties concerned. 

 

Last year when I was reviewing the e-doc about the different classes of devices Smartlabs had already defined. I had to take pause and think how many other elements are involved to make a device operate with a controller??

 

It appears to me there is more than one way to do this as it has been seen by the ISY, HL2, HUB, and any other software based controller. I always thought these devices had firmware that stated *Hey I can do this, that, and so on* and based on that reply all the required attributes would be made available and applied.

 

After eight years of watching various vendors support Insteon, Z-Wave, Zigbee, etc its clear to me there are no plug and play approach and the standard can be interpreted many ways. This is the part I will absolutely concede that Apple brings to the market a unified eco system which all others should mimic and follow.

 

I don't personally care for Apple as a company but the one thing they are able to get right 99% of the time is a long term goal, eco system, and standards.

 

What is truly funny is that X-10 will probably still be around in the next 10 years! If that isn't staying power I don't know what is. 

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If you're referring to HomeKit then it's simply a framework (a common language) one that simplifies the current state of home automation. How is that a closed system, and how does it limit growth? 

 

 

I feel the way I do because Apple will limit what companies can do with the famework itself. For example (just a minor one) the way UDI handles the ISY, Apple wold not allow the ISY to work with homekit without making significant changes to how the ISY handles things. It is far to open. Should things change it could help stuff but the way they have it setup right now, it is not as open as it could be. Don't get me wrong, it will be a success. With that said, it will be a success because of it's fanbase not because of it's capabilities

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Teken,

 

Your right on your points. I actually like how UDI is doing things. While the pace of integration may be slow to some people, it is done right. When I look at all these all in one systems, they are jack of all trades but masters of none. UDI on the other hand, only does a few things and they master it. I personally would rather use their system knowing that it will work the way I want  completely instead of some of these other controllers that lets me use anything but limits me extensively in how I can use them.

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I feel the way I do because Apple will limit what companies can do with the famework itself. For example (just a minor one) the way UDI handles the ISY, Apple wold not allow the ISY to work with homekit without making significant changes to how the ISY handles things. It is far to open. Should things change it could help stuff but the way they have it setup right now, it is not as open as it could be. Don't get me wrong, it will be a success. With that said, it will be a success because of it's fanbase not because of it's capabilities

 

Richaree

True. Another way to look it: Its a closed system because its a closed system. Is UDI (or any of us) able to download an API on the integration side and get to work the way we want to? No. Can we write software to connect devices and publish it for all to use? No. Is there a better definition of a closed system? No. But there are many excuses why.

 

We're seeing an age old problem with Apple. Beautiful, dreamy sounding high level marketechture is presented. The discussion is around ecosystems and simplicity, when the real work is in the details of integration. Details which are summarily thrown in the integrator's (UDI's) lap combined with contradictory, leg-hold-trap contractual conditions.

 

In my mind, UDI needs to be indemnified from the pidgeon product management at play here from Apple. (Fly in, make a big mess, fly away). The limitations with integrating the ISY with homekit are with homekit itself. The focus is not on UDI and Homekit. Instead, the focus should on Apple and homekit.  Why can't Apple provide an integration kit that allows UDI to be successful?? Talking up this dreamy vision, how great it is, and then dumping the mess in UDI's lap is not happening.

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I believe once more people start producing home kit devices some of the limitations will be seen.

 

My hopes are Apple will realize the initial concept needs to be refined and tweaked. If history is any indicator Apple will take in all of the bad feedback and release a updated frame work until the bugs are sorted out.

 

I have absolutely no problem with evolution and development in this aspect as this is the reality with anything new!

 

The problem I see with Apple is often times they don't believe there is a problem! Anyone who has had a iOS device knows of the hundreds of great Apps that have filled the void we call iPhone / iPad etc.

 

Where there was a clear feature or function the device could not do. So third party devs came swooping in to save the day!

 

Only for Apple to steal their idea and integrate it into the native OS! Or worse killing off the ability to use or do something, fawkers.

 

The reality is waiting is the prudent thing to do at this time. If any of these companies are still pushing HA after five years the trial period may be over.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

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The HA sport is already way too complicated for the average user. This fact can be hidden by the peer group you are involved with. Most people think it is too complicated to install an app on their smart phone and HA may be cool but too much hassle and just an indication of laziness, even though I don't see them  getting out of their easy-chairs to change TV channels.

 

I know people that openly  state "I will never own a computer." and I know people that will never own anything they can't order online, even groceries.

 

 

"In my application of HA, it is to make my life easier, not turn me into an obsessive compulsive."

 

Too late!  Most believe you have to be OCD to even be involved in HA.

 

 

No matter what these tech leaders do you will never sell HA to the majority of N.Americans. It only represents a large cost in money and education time, from their busy life getting obese, for an expensive toy. If you can't even get them to own a mobile phone or computer you aren't going to sell them HA equipment.

 

I don't own knitting or crochet needles and many don't own a computer or smart phone and never will. Now I better go and turn over my toast so the oven doesn't burn the one side. :)

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  • 1 month later...

 

If you're referring to HomeKit then it's simply a framework (a common language) one that simplifies the current state of home automation. How is that a closed system, and how does it limit growth? 

 

 

Because some people are blind and don't realize that Android, Windows etc are just as "closed" as they claim Apple is. 

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I feel the way I do because Apple will limit what companies can do with the famework itself. For example (just a minor one) the way UDI handles the ISY, Apple wold not allow the ISY to work with homekit without making significant changes to how the ISY handles things. It is far to open. Should things change it could help stuff but the way they have it setup right now, it is not as open as it could be. Don't get me wrong, it will be a success. With that said, it will be a success because of it's fanbase not because of it's capabilities

 

And your proof that Apple will not let ISY work with HomeKit without making changes? Or is this just your hate of Apple shining through?

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Dale, the problem seems to be security. To ensure Siri/HomerKit-controlled equipment is secure, Apple is requiring HomeKit participants use signal encryption via an Apple-designed decryption chip. (Presumably, in the event a huge security hole is discovered, this would allow Apple to de-authorize use of a class of devices via Siri until the problem is corrected.)

 

Offering the decryption via hardware, as opposed to software, makes it tougher for hackers to reverse-engineer, but it leaves LAN-connected hardware built without that chip out in the cold. Controllers like the ISY would presumably require a costly hardware redesign, so I suspect Universal Devices wants to see if HomeKit takes off before committing the necessary resources.

 

While you can't use your ISY with Siri, you can already control it via voice. Just ask Siri to open the MobiLinc iOS app, then use its voice plugin to control ISY devices, scenes and programs.

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Because some people are blind and don't realize that Android, Windows etc are just as "closed" as they claim Apple is. 

 

Microsoft's approach is definitely open. Microsoft is participating in Alljoyn and integrating Alljoyn into Windows 10.  Alljoyn is a multi vendor, open source HA standard.  Here is where the Alljoyn software integration kits and documentation can be downloaded for several different platforms, including iOS, and get to work. Nothing to sign up for, no commitments, no costs, no restrictions. While device manufacturers certify their products to Alljoyn standards, developers are not restricted.

 

I'm guessing that with this kit, Alljoyn is one of the candidates to deliver with the new Node server UDI Michel recently posted the poll on. 

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