madman Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 I have two INSTEON bulbs that suffer interference from a laptop charger. I'm pretty sure the problem is the charger as I have tested other devices and they don't seem to be the problem. I'm just starting out and I don't have very many insteon devices and all other devices (besides the bulbs) are on/off micro switches and these don't have any communication problems so far. It's kind of funny that the bulb with the communication problem is very close to the PLM and some of the micro on/off switches and the bulb that is farthest away from the PLM and closer to the charger is slow to communicate but is working better. Any suggestions on how to mitigate this?
Techman Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 Put a FilterLinc between the charger and the outlet. Some chargers have a history of interfering with Insteon signals. T.V.'s, UPS, Computers etc. can also interfere with signals
stusviews Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Physical distance means less than which electric circuit devices are connected to.
madman Posted February 1, 2015 Author Posted February 1, 2015 Physical distance means less than which electric circuit devices are connected to. I know, but these are dual band devices. Proximity does matter
madman Posted February 1, 2015 Author Posted February 1, 2015 Put a FilterLinc between the charger and the outlet. Some chargers have a history of interfering with Insteon signals. T.V.'s, UPS, Computers etc. can also interfere with signals Yeah, would adding more dual band devices make it better? would suck to carry around the filterlinc with the laptop
stusviews Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 RF is not a panacea for Insteon signaling. Noise producers can overcome the powerline signal even with dual-band devices. Only a filter helps. RF can assist powerline signals, but is more susceptible to interference. When it comes to powerline devices, the circuit is more important than proximity. Proximity matters more with RF only devices such as sensors. See: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15276-insteon-signal-noise-troubleshooting/
mwester Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Yeah, would adding more dual band devices make it better? would suck to carry around the filterlinc with the laptop It sure is a pain. But as I continued investigating, I found a plethora of devices that caused problems -- most of them minor, but when all were unplugged, or removed, the net effect was huge (I managed to do a query of my entire network with everything responding in at most two hops, and no time outs). So, I simply obtained a small boat-load of filterlincs, and applied them judiciously throughout the house. For example, all the entertainment gear is now on a single plug - I added a small UPS (the DVR takes forever to reboot after even a small glitch), and plugged the UPS into a filterlinc. Not only did that clean up a lot of wires on that wall, it cleaned up a lot of noise. The garage was a real problem -- I never realized how noisy the opener was, electrically-speaking. So there's a filterlinc there, with a power-strip -- I moved a bunch of other electronics to that strip (a security camera, the radio for when I'm working in there, etc). That had the side effect of also removing a bunch of extension cords draped along the walls. Neat. In the living room, near the end table, I unplugged a maze of crap -- the base station for a cordless phone, an extension cord that led to a pair of cell phone chargers, the living room Sonos unit, etc. One filterlinc there, and a proper power strip, mounted under the top of said end table keeps the electrical signal clean, and gets rid of a fire hazard, plus we now know where all the phone chargers are. My laptop can generally find a filter-linc'd power strip somewhere nearby. (But recently I happened to toss in a few low-ball bids on eBay for some used Dell laptop power supplies -- and won... so now it's even easier.)
madman Posted February 1, 2015 Author Posted February 1, 2015 I wonder what INSTEON is doing with all those kits they are selling at Best Buy for home automation. A less savvy buyer would be very upset when their devices stop working because they are charging their laptops, or watching TV. It would be nice if they would make smaller filterlincs, the ones available now are so ugly when in plain view. I'll see if I can mitigate the problem by avoiding charging the laptop using certain circuits and go from there.
Brian H Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 The ZNF10A-P filters everything above 4KHz on the power lines. It may work and looks smaller. I know an Insteon user has some of the wired in version in use. http://www.smarthome.com/simply-automated-znf10a-p-noise-filter-and-attenuation-isolator-plug-in.html If the current draw on the AC is not too close to five amps. The X10 XPPF should work. Though they are Brown.
Teken Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 It would be nice if they would make smaller filterlincs, the ones available now are so ugly when in plain view. Future Filter Lincs will be based on the Lamp Linc / Relay On-Off module in the future. So it will have a more up to date look and size but will also remove the pass through outlet on the top which many use today.
Brian H Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Well the Filterlinc's design goes way back to the Smarthome X10 clone era. So maybe it is time for a face lift. Though It will be interesting how they intend to squeeze 10 amp coils into that smaller case.
Teken Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Well the Filterlinc's design goes way back to the Smarthome X10 clone era. So maybe it is time for a face lift. Though It will be interesting how they intend to squeeze 10 amp coils into that smaller case. I am unsure where in the time line this will be. But the physical size does need to be considered and perhaps they might put them on their side? If that can't be done I suppose they would simply make a deeper box with the same form factor which could then allow the inclusion of the pass threw outlet!
stusviews Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 I've opened nearly every Insteon device and have added pass-through outlets to devices that didn't have them. With the new form factor, deeper won't work unless there are significant modifications the circuit board. But, a longer (top to bottom) device easily would easily accommodate a pass-through outlet. And 4 mm narrower (left to right) would allow two devices side-by-side in a multi-gang box that had more than one duplex receptacle.
Teken Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 I've opened nearly every Insteon device and have added pass-through outlets to devices that didn't have them. Come again? A picture is worth a thousand words.
stusviews Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Unmodified Access Point Front Back Two views of clips removed from defective LampLinc Clips installed in Access Point Access Point cover (left), LampLinc cover (right) Inside of LampLinc Cover Modified Access Point Note: the ground clip is already in place.
Teken Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Unmodified Access Point Front DSCN0711.JPG Back DSCN0718.JPG Two views of clips removed from defective LampLinc DSCN0712.JPG DSCN0713.JPG Clips installed in Access Point DSCN0714.JPG Access Point cover (left), LampLinc cover (right) DSCN0717.JPG Inside of LampLinc Cover DSCN0715.JPG Modified Access Point DSCN0719.JPG Note: the ground clip is already in place. Stu, You're a good, good, man!! I knew there was a reason I kept all of those old and defective Lamp Lincs for a reason!
Teken Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Your Access Point must be from a beginning of time! Mine doesn't even look like that inside and there is no method to extract the ground pin.
Teken Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Because my AP is from a later period I had to forgo the ground plug. But in the location it's being placed in there is no chance for a device which requires a ground to be used. So no real harm there: To ensure I did not forget or had a laps in memory I decided to label the unit for that *Just in case* The final product thanks to Mr.Stu! You rock and you know it!
Brian H Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Teken;Yes the revision 1.? 2443 Access Points where built on the older power transformer power supply PCB and have a RF Daughter Board.That PCB was also in the 2412 PLMs, 2414 PLC's, 2814 Icon PLC's and the 2442 SignaLinc RF. All used a Daughter Board and the 2442 SignaLinc RF has a three pin pass through outlet.The revision 2.? 2443 Access points have the newer PCB with the RF on the main board. That board is also the one in the 2413 PLMs with the two year before power supply failures.If you can find any of the old Smarthome two pin series 2000 X10 clones. Their front covers have the Line and Neutral pass through pin out on them. Though I do believe the two slot one will not fit over the ground pin.One thing I can say about Smarthome/ Smartlabs. They used common parts like cases on many models.
stusviews Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 I am careful to never power a wall wart which would lessen the range of the AP.
Teken Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Teken; Yes the revision 1.? 2443 Access Points where built on the older power transformer power supply PCB and have a RF Daughter Board. That PCB was also in the 2412 PLMs, 2414 PLC's, 2814 Icon PLC's and the 2442 SignaLinc RF. All used a Daughter Board and the 2442 SignaLinc RF has a three pin pass through outlet. The revision 2.? 2443 Access points have the newer PCB with the RF on the main board. That board is also the one in the 2413 PLMs with the two year before power supply failures. If you can find any of the old Smarthome two pin series 2000 X10 clones. Their front covers have the Line and Neutral pass through pin out on them. One thing I can say about Smarthome/ Smartlabs. They used common parts like cases on many models. Brian, As always your knowledge and feed back is invaluable to me. I am careful to never power a wall wart which would lessen the range of the AP. I retro fitted six units, more for the novelty and future use should it be required. I agree plugging in a wall wart could impact the AP and its intended purpose. Of the six, only one of them will actually use the pass through outlet and that's only for *just in time use* for a small data logger in my secure room. Again, thank you for sharing such a quick, elegant, and useful retro fit!
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