Grizzy Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Teken, I cannot express my appreciation enough for your write up on installing this thing. Now I understand the frustration you expressed in your notes !! I have never seen a device sold with worse documentation then this thing. I can only cross my fingers that they did a better job on design and functionality. It's late and will continue tomorrow. If you like I can give you a few minor things that caught me and may help the next unsuspecting user. I like to keep documentation on all my hardware somewhere safe. Is there any way I can get a file of your post ? I'm sure I'll need some help before I'm done. Again Thanks for saving me those two grueling days of frustration ! Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Hello Don, That is great to hear and hope very much you get what you're after. For me the Autelis Bridge enabled me to monitor so many areas in my home which allows better HVAC and environmental control. Please do list out any install issues you encountered here and I shall append my install thread to reflect it and also try to find a method to convert the whole page into a PDF. Lastly take a few moments and create the two programs from Xathros in tracking and logging the values. The SEG guide should also be used to allow long term graphing and historic review. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzy Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Teken, I think the path I have traveled through the mid 80's till now is very much the same as the path your traveling. In the late '80's my home automation system controlled my security system, irrigation system, Energy monitor, and would start my car in the morning so I did not have to get in a cold car and scrape ice from the windows. I did this with a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3 and several remote controllers I designed built and sold. The Internet was unheard of and the big thing was "BBS" and Pagers. My HA would send me alerts via pager codes. Ham radio provided my Terminal Link. My problem is I'm outliving my technology and very stubborn about change. The ISY has been the only controller I found for a suitable replacement. Problem is getting the ISY interfaced with my I/O which is still Reliable , Viable, Available, Industrial Quality, and Cheap. That is my primary goal for the Autelis Bridge. The one wire interface will be of use also. Looking at your magnificent setup, I want to ask if your are familiar or have looked at the opto22 analog and digital I/O. The latest technology is beyond our price range, but the older optomux is cheap as the industry is upgrading and this goes surplus. Extremely high quality I/O. Improvements in graphics and touch screens makes change all worth while. I'm fascinated and anxiously want to try the energy monitoring site you recommend. The time and effort you put in your posts is very much appreciated by me and many others, including those that never say anything. Thank you Don P.S. Opto22 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Teken, I think the path I have traveled through the mid 80's till now is very much the same as the path your traveling. In the late '80's my home automation system controlled my security system, irrigation system, Energy monitor, and would start my car in the morning so I did not have to get in a cold car and scrape ice from the windows. I did this with a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3 and several remote controllers I designed built and sold. The Internet was unheard of and the big thing was "BBS" and Pagers. My HA would send me alerts via pager codes. Ham radio provided my Terminal Link. My problem is I'm outliving my technology and very stubborn about change. The ISY has been the only controller I found for a suitable replacement. Problem is getting the ISY interfaced with my I/O which is still Reliable , Viable, Available, Industrial Quality, and Cheap. That is my primary goal for the Autelis Bridge. The one wire interface will be of use also. Looking at your magnificent setup, I want to ask if your are familiar or have looked at the opto22 analog and digital I/O. The latest technology is beyond our price range, but the older optomux is cheap as the industry is upgrading and this goes surplus. Extremely high quality I/O. Improvements in graphics and touch screens makes change all worth while. I'm fascinated and anxiously want to try the energy monitoring site you recommend. The time and effort you put in your posts is very much appreciated by me and many others, including those that never say anything. Thank you Don P.S. Opto22 ? Hey Don, I truly believe we are indeed traveling the same path even (IF) I am late to the party! Ha . . . I am not familiar with the Opto22 but will do some quick research about this device and see what potentials it has for me. Can you let me know what use case you have for such a device and what a person could do with it? Better yet how about I let you know what my long term goals are and perhaps you may already have such device(s) in your home that is working quite well. Let me preface with the following, that my whole life I've watch those Sci-Fi TV / Adventure shows from Star Trek, McGyver, Space 1999, Battle Star Galactica (BSG), Air Wolf, and list goes on. In the past a lot of this automation and control was only available to the rich and famous. Home Automation like Control 4 and their like were only dreams that mere mortals could wish to have. With the advent of X-10, Insteon, Z-Wave, Zigbee, UPB, all of this changed for the masses. Now with global Internet sales and places like EBAY purchasing used, refurbished, government sales, NOS, etc. Has allowed anyone to purchase Enterprise gear pennies on the dollar. This is where most of my equipment has come from which has given me the opportunity to use, install and deploy with great success. I am currently at a critical point in my HA where my primary focus is on environmental control and awareness. This is the primary reason I purchased the Autelis Bridge as it was a very clean and purpose built solution that solved many technical issues I faced. One being as I get older I find my patience and willingness to spend gobs of time simply is not there. Don't get me wrong I love to learn new things and this is what makes this a great hobby. But, when a hobby becomes work, or a make work project given where I am in life I would rather avoid all of that. I have enough stressers in my life and don't need equipment that need lots of baby sitting or tinkering. This should just work as intended and let me carry on to the next big project! What I am looking for is finalize my Autelis Bridge sensor array and one of that is to purchase 2-4 of the Hobby Boards humidity sensors which will allow not only temperature but humidity. Next is obtaining local weather information such as light, UV, wind, and very important to me at this point is a water sensor. Quite of few good folks have provided some devices that on the surface could fit that bill. But, after a quick review none of them actually provide its raining, how much rain, and when its stopped raining. I know all of the above items could easily be handled by a Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus weather station. This is on my long term list of gear to buy when disposable income is there . . . In the interim I thought since rain / humidity data was more important to me this is where I would focus my efforts to. My problem is finding a rain sensor that interfaces with the the ISY Series Controller. This is also why I gravitated to the Autelis Bridge because it allows RS-232 (Serial) data to be accepted and in turn I believe will be relayed to the ISY. As I recall you asked the same question about if anyone had done the same. I too was interested but thus far have not seen or read anyone doing the same. As you indicated industrial RS-232 serial gear is all over the place and cheap at the moment. My problem is identifying the key words or industries that could help me accomplish some of the goals listed above. If you have some ideas or already using such devices that you feel could integrate well into the Autelis Bridge / ISY please do let me know. I would love to work with you on making it happen and both of us could blaze a new trail! Ha . . . Ultimately my goal is to make my home a NET Zero / Passive Home with in the design constraints which exist now. On the last page of my Install thread I have just began tracking my efforts in PCM (Phase Change Materials) solutions and how it will help me get to that last mile stone of mass / density. In the Coffee forum I had asked about how best to increase mass / density with the ultimate goal of passive heating & cooling. After much research PCM technology seems the best way for me to accomplish these goals on a reasonable budget. All of this ties into Energy Management & Control which many of the things you and I already do and use. Both of us are using some form of lighting / device control whether it be Insteon, Z-Wave, X-10 etc. Most of us have already changed out incandescent bulbs to LED which my entire home uses now. I've spent a considerable amount of time over the year to make the homes envelope tighter than it already was. My next step is to add even more insulation to key areas such as my garage and attic space in the home. When I am done both attic space should be at a R70 - R80 and this is something that simply keeps giving back each year. So in my eyes its a worthy investment for the long haul as it directly impacts heating / cooling costs. As you noted the primary reason for purchasing the GEM / DB combination was to first identity what devices in the home were the energy hogs. Next was to see if any of them could be fine tuned for the best balance of energy, performance, and reduced costs. Ultimately, the DB / GEM provided empirical data to track and see if any one change made a difference in the my energy consumption. It goes with out saying after all was said and done the only solution for some areas was to decommission a device / appliance and stop being such a cheap aszz! Ha . . . I believe the key take aways for me was learning not to be so focused on ROI (Return On Investment) because in some aspects of things I was doing would never pay off in a reasonable amount of time. This (assumes) that was the primary driver opposed to seeing immediate reduction in costs or making the home even more comfortable and energy efficient. Let me know if there are any sensors or devices you will integrate well to the Autelis Bridge / ISY. Because this is where I am at now, well besides waiting for the freaking Canadian dollar to come back up! I don't think you guys can appreciate how cheap things are on your side of the 49th parallel. I've been waiting to buy those Hobby Boards Humidity Sensors for about a year now. Never seems to be a good time because the dollar is in the tank and everyone wants to charge $30-40.00 for USPS via snail mail just for a credit card sized item WTF?? Anyways I've rambled on long enough let me know what possible solutions you have up your sleeve. Perhaps you can school some of us youngsters into learning a few things! Ha . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzy Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Hey Don, I truly believe we are indeed traveling the same path even (IF) I am late to the party! Ha . . . I am not familiar with the Opto22 but will do some quick research about this device and see what potentials it has for me. Can you let me know what use case you have for such a device and what a person could do with it? Better yet how about I let you know what my long term goals are and perhaps you may already have such device(s) in your home that is working quite well. Let me preface with the following, that my whole life I've watch those Sci-Fi TV / Adventure shows from Star Trek, McGyver, Space 1999, Battle Star Galactica (BSG), Air Wolf, and list goes on. In the past a lot of this automation and control was only available to the rich and famous. Home Automation like Control 4 and their like were only dreams that mere mortals could wish to have. With the advent of X-10, Insteon, Z-Wave, Zigbee, UPB, all of this changed for the masses. Now with global Internet sales and places like EBAY purchasing used, refurbished, government sales, NOS, etc. Has allowed anyone to purchase Enterprise gear pennies on the dollar. This is where most of my equipment has come from which has given me the opportunity to use, install and deploy with great success. I am currently at a critical point in my HA where my primary focus is on environmental control and awareness. This is the primary reason I purchased the Autelis Bridge as it was a very clean and purpose built solution that solved many technical issues I faced. One being as I get older I find my patience and willingness to spend gobs of time simply is not there. Don't get me wrong I love to learn new things and this is what makes this a great hobby. But, when a hobby becomes work, or a make work project given where I am in life I would rather avoid all of that. I have enough stressers in my life and don't need equipment that need lots of baby sitting or tinkering. This should just work as intended and let me carry on to the next big project! What I am looking for is finalize my Autelis Bridge sensor array and one of that is to purchase 2-4 of the Hobby Boards humidity sensors which will allow not only temperature but humidity. Next is obtaining local weather information such as light, UV, wind, and very important to me at this point is a water sensor. Quite of few good folks have provided some devices that on the surface could fit that bill. But, after a quick review none of them actually provide its raining, how much rain, and when its stopped raining. I know all of the above items could easily be handled by a Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus weather station. This is on my long term list of gear to buy when disposable income is there . . . In the interim I thought since rain / humidity data was more important to me this is where I would focus my efforts to. My problem is finding a rain sensor that interfaces with the the ISY Series Controller. This is also why I gravitated to the Autelis Bridge because it allows RS-232 (Serial) data to be accepted and in turn I believe will be relayed to the ISY. As I recall you asked the same question about if anyone had done the same. I too was interested but thus far have not seen or read anyone doing the same. As you indicated industrial RS-232 serial gear is all over the place and cheap at the moment. My problem is identifying the key words or industries that could help me accomplish some of the goals listed above. If you have some ideas or already using such devices that you feel could integrate well into the Autelis Bridge / ISY please do let me know. I would love to work with you on making it happen and both of us could blaze a new trail! Ha . . . Ultimately my goal is to make my home a NET Zero / Passive Home with in the design constraints which exist now. On the last page of my Install thread I have just began tracking my efforts in PCM (Phase Change Materials) solutions and how it will help me get to that last mile stone of mass / density. In the Coffee forum I had asked about how best to increase mass / density with the ultimate goal of passive heating & cooling. After much research PCM technology seems the best way for me to accomplish these goals on a reasonable budget. All of this ties into Energy Management & Control which many of the things you and I already do and use. Both of us are using some form of lighting / device control whether it be Insteon, Z-Wave, X-10 etc. Most of us have already changed out incandescent bulbs to LED which my entire home uses now. I've spent a considerable amount of time over the year to make the homes envelope tighter than it already was. My next step is to add even more insulation to key areas such as my garage and attic space in the home. When I am done both attic space should be at a R70 - R80 and this is something that simply keeps giving back each year. So in my eyes its a worthy investment for the long haul as it directly impacts heating / cooling costs. As you noted the primary reason for purchasing the GEM / DB combination was to first identity what devices in the home were the energy hogs. Next was to see if any of them could be fine tuned for the best balance of energy, performance, and reduced costs. Ultimately, the DB / GEM provided empirical data to track and see if any one change made a difference in the my energy consumption. It goes with out saying after all was said and done the only solution for some areas was to decommission a device / appliance and stop being such a cheap aszz! Ha . . . I believe the key take aways for me was learning not to be so focused on ROI (Return On Investment) because in some aspects of things I was doing would never pay off in a reasonable amount of time. This (assumes) that was the primary driver opposed to seeing immediate reduction in costs or making the home even more comfortable and energy efficient. Let me know if there are any sensors or devices you will integrate well to the Autelis Bridge / ISY. Because this is where I am at now, well besides waiting for the freaking Canadian dollar to come back up! I don't think you guys can appreciate how cheap things are on your side of the 49th parallel. I've been waiting to buy those Hobby Boards Humidity Sensors for about a year now. Never seems to be a good time because the dollar is in the tank and everyone wants to charge $30-40.00 for USPS via snail mail just for a credit card sized item WTF?? Anyways I've rambled on long enough let me know what possible solutions you have up your sleeve. Perhaps you can school some of us youngsters into learning a few things! Ha . . . I believe the opto 22 would be a perfect fit for much of your system. It starts with a backplane ( one for digital & one for a analog ) designed for plugin modules that will control and monitoring virtually any industrial control application in industry today. I can verifiy in 20+ years of use I have experienced only a couple of failures. Digital modules come in AC Input , AC Output , DC Input , DC Input all a varity of type from SCR to relay contact. Watching eBay I typically buy these for $1 ea. Analog Modules come in 4-20ma current loop input and output. 0-5vdc 0-10vdc in and output. Millivolt input various ranges. 0-5 amp and milliamperes versions also. Frequency input. Pulse counters. FOR YOU thermocouple modules for type k, type t, type j and as your aware accuracy and reliability much better than one wire. Just take the wire and twist the end, vola you have a sensor. I'm sure I missed listing what all is available. Brain boards, well the digital back plane can easily be used just like you would use a relay board, but give it a brain and you can put it on a network with many additional function. The analog side pretty much needs a brain for the analog to digital conversion. All this on a RS-422 network. Later technology uses Ethernet and optical network, the cost puts these beyond my reach. I typically have bought a backplane with 16 modules an brain board for $25 - $35. DON'T get scared away new price for this board would have been just under $1000 and you know some sellers expect to get high dollars for this surplus crap (well it was crap to the factory that upgraded and tore it out) BE PATIENT there are many good deals on this stuff. The Autelis Bridge should interface nicely and BANG? Industrial quality I/O on the ISY .... ALL OPTICALLY ISOLATED to protect the Bridge and ISY.. My cabin (all automated as well) in the Colorado mountains sustained the worse lightning hits every year I replaced a couple serial boards at minimum, and many times the motherboard. AFTER opto22 maybe something every 2-3 years. As you can tell I'm hooked on OPTO 22 until I find something better and cheaper. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I don't think you guys can appreciate how cheap things are on your side of the 49th parallel. I've been waiting to buy those Hobby Boards Humidity Sensors for about a year now. Never seems to be a good time because the dollar is in the tank and everyone wants to charge $30-40.00 for USPS via snail mail just for a credit card sized item WTF?? I just compared shipping from my US location with BC, Canada for Hobby Boards Humidity/Temp Sensor (HT4-R1-A, $55.00). The difference for USPS priority mail is only 45¢ (for express mail, the difference is $8.75). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 That can't be, flat rate USPS box rate is only $5-15.XX. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 http://www.hobby-boards.com/store/cart.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Was there something I was supposed to see? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 45¢ difference in postage between US and Can (most places). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott847 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 ... What I am looking for is finalize my Autelis Bridge sensor array and one of that is to purchase 2-4 of the Hobby Boards humidity sensors which will allow not only temperature but humidity. ... I've spent a considerable amount of time over the year to make the homes envelope tighter than it already was. I had mentioned I was doing some temperature/humidity sensor testing in separate threads. Following FYI is a chart that shows humidity readings from eight DHT22/AM2302 sensors attached to Raspberry Pi's and emonTH's as you consider how many humidity sensors to install. Our house is two levels plus a basement and has a single air conditioner. As a result the humidity levels are pretty much the same throughout the house. Regarding the tighter envelope, how are you taking into account fresh air requirements to keep indoor air pollution in check? CO2 is one good measure of ventilation effectiveness. In our case we have a fresh air intake that generally keeps our CO2 below 1000 ppm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I had mentioned I was doing some temperature/humidity sensor testing in separate threads. Following FYI is a chart that shows humidity readings from eight DHT22/AM2302 sensors attached to Raspberry Pi's and emonTH's as you consider how many humidity sensors to install. Our house is two levels plus a basement and has a single air conditioner. As a result the humidity levels are pretty much the same throughout the house. 2015-08-01 Dewpoints Example.png Regarding the tighter envelope, how are you taking into account fresh air requirements to keep indoor air pollution in check? CO2 is one good measure of ventilation effectiveness. In our case we have a fresh air intake that generally keeps our CO2 below 1000 ppm. I am using a hybrid inline intake that is tied to the HVAC system. I'm working on a hybrid HRV system for the future. But haven't found a system that meets the energy requirements I need to meet. As the home becomes much tighter the air exchange rate drops off to near zero. In the extreme north where I live fresh air intake becomes more important as you're aware. Because it's so cold during the winter it's not practical to intake fresh air without the furnace. Which obviously impacts my energy needs and targets I would like to meet. Hence why my pursuit for a HRV system but soon realized I will need to build my own to meet my specific needs. One of my side hobbies has been to research on a carbon scrubber in the reduction of CO2. Ever since I saw Apollo 13 this has been on my mind and long term goal! Ha . . . Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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