flsenior Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I started another topic in this forum (FilterLinc) because I was having communication issues which seemed to be solely related to a FilterLinc. However, as time has moved forward it appears that something else/additional is giving me problems. My communication issues relate to (2) ApplianceLincs 2456S3, V.42 which are connected to (2) Elk 240V Heavy Duty Relay Contractors. Each one operates a pool motor. I have unplugged all devices in my house that have a FilterLinc. I have also checked my Access Points to insure proper operation. The ISY frequently gives me an error message about a communication issue with each of the pool motors. When I clear the error message and manually turn On/Off the motors (via the ISY UI) the error is resolved and the motors respond as expected. The motors will operate for a time then the error message will reappear. On some occasions the ISY UI will indicate that the motor is On/Off when in fact the system had properly executed a programmed On/Off command. Again, I can resolve these issues by clearing the error message and then manually executing an On/Off command via the ISY UI. I am trying to find a methodogy to test my system and find the cause of the communication issues. No new appliances, switches, etc. have been added to my house in recent weeks. The ApplianceLincs are located at the far corner of my house. They are behind a block wall. I have placed an Insteon Switch and an Access Point on the other side of the wall. In addition, there is an Insteon Dimmer in the same room plus 28 more Insteon dual band devices on the same electrical phase of the system. My PLM is on the far opposite side of the house. There are 19 Inseon dual band devices on this side plus 2 access points. A few days ago I was having communication issues with a number of other devices. I replaced my PLM 2413S as it was 18 months old and a V.1B. The replacement PLM is also a 2413S V.1B but it was new out of the box. I have no issues communicating with any other dual band or RF device. I have RF devices throughout the house and outside in the pool area. All diagnostic suggestion are appreciated. ISY 994i Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 What's the error message? How do you clear it? BTW, the 2456S3 is powerline only. You may want to try plugging a Range Extender/Access Point into the pass-through outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flsenior Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 I can't remember the exact wording but it will state that there was a communication error. Something like there was no connection. I clear it by clicking OK. The device icon on the left side will have a red "!" indicator. Once I do the manual on/off the indicator changes to light bulb for the ApplianceLinc. Do you think that a range extender/access point is necessary since an access point and an Insteon switch is less than 3 ft away on the opposite side of the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 The Access Point may be 3 feet away, but the length of wire between the Access Point and the ApplianceLinc (which is powerline only) is not. If both devices are not on the same circuit, then the signal may need to travel as far as to the electric panel and back. The ! is definitely an indication that the ISY is having difficulty communicating with the ApplianceLinc. Plugging in a Range Extender may help. If that doesn't work, then we can start troubleshooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flsenior Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 The devices are on the same phase but different circuit breakers on the panel. If I located an INSTEON 2634-222 On/Off Outdoor Module (Dual-Band) near (4 ft) the ApplianceLinc would that suffice as a range extender? They outdoor module and the ApplianceLinc would be on the same circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 To maximize effectiveness, the Range extender must be on the same circuit as the ApplianceLinc. BTW, how did you determine that the devices are not on opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply? In particular, the ApplianceLinc does not have an indicator as do dual-band devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flsenior Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 I am not certain which devices you reference. I made assumptions rather than objective determinations regarding which legs were used. I have access points in multiple locations in the house. When I engage the PLM the access points on one side of the house blink and the other side remains steady so I assumed that they were on opposite legs. The ApplianceLinc is on the side which was not blinking so I assumed that it too was not on the same leg as the PLM. I am an electrical idiot so I am limited when it comes to understanding and fixing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 One thing to consider is that the older Appliance Linc may be in fact failing. The red (!) is an indicator one or more components such as a capacitor has started to fail within the unit. I have 25 of these units in various iterations of hardware / firmware releases. So assuming this is not a typical noise issue you may want to consider this device needs to be replaced. I made a write about this also listed here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16502-whats-inside-these-modules/?hl=%2Bappliance+%2Blinc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I am not certain which devices you reference. I made assumptions rather than objective determinations regarding which legs were used. I have access points in multiple locations in the house. When I engage the PLM the access points on one side of the house blink and the other side remains steady so I assumed that they were on opposite legs. The ApplianceLinc is on the side which was not blinking so I assumed that it too was not on the same leg as the PLM. I am an electrical idiot so I am limited when it comes to understanding and fixing issues. As noted by Stu the older Appliance Lincs are single band and would not show any blinking to the 4 tap (beacon) test. The only flickering you will see is the Insteon COM traffic as it passes the power line. Please follow the users manual for the 2413S PLM about the 4 tap (beacon) test. Newer Switch Lincs / KPL's now have dual LED's which really makes it easy to determine same phase / opposite phase. Older units you will need to reference their users manuals about what to expect from the 4 tap (beacon) test which I have listed here also: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16485-kpl-4-tap-bridging-coupling-beacon-test/?hl=%2Bbeacon+%2Btest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 You may also want to use the four tap test on the Access Points to verify they are OK. Hardware 2 Access points have the same main board in them as the 2413S. Including the poor choice of power supply capacitors. I had two revision 2 Access Points get flaky. I rebuilt them using the same instructions as for the 2413S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flsenior Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 In the back of my mind I have wondered about the ApplianceLincs. They are old (probably 2010) and are installed in less than ideal locations. I have them outside in weather-tight, non vented boxes. They have some sun exposure so the temperature is high. At the time the outdoor version was not available. Now I could install replacements and have them fully exposed (and ventilated) to the elements. I wish there was a method of testing the ApplianceLincs to confirm their performance levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 In the back of my mind I have wondered about the ApplianceLincs. They are old (probably 2010) and are installed in less than ideal locations. I have them outside in weather-tight, non vented boxes. They have some sun exposure so the temperature is high. At the time the outdoor version was not available. Now I could install replacements and have them fully exposed (and ventilated) to the elements. I wish there was a method of testing the ApplianceLincs to confirm their performance levels. Based on your above reply heat, direct sun light, unvented, and old age. Those capacitors would be either very dry or exploded by now. Take one of the bad appliance lincs and plug a AP into it. Using the admin console turn it on/off 5-10 times. What happens? If you see the red (!) you can hard reset the device. Afterwards use the restore device to bring it back to the original program state. Activate the unit another 5-10 times what are the results? Please do this on the same circuit as the PLM and report back. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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