Did anyone see this regarding Insteon and Logitech Harmony?

[rlanza1054]

Hi,

 

First I apologize if this is already posted or know.

 

I just went to the Smarthome website because tomorrow they will be having the start of their Labor Day sale.

 

The first thing I see is on the front page is an announcement that Insteon can now be controlled by the new Harmony Home Hub!

 

http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-logitech.html

 

Since I am a fan an owner of two Harmony Ultimate's, I mostly likely will invest in the new Harmony Hub, its suggested retail price is $99.

 

Unless I misread, its supposed to work with the Insteon Hub. I'll assume any model for now. But will double check this point.

 

I know the current Harmony, contains the 40 ISY IR codes, but this Harmony Home Hub is supposed to talk to Insteon directly or the Insteon Hub, not via ISY IR or older X-10 codes, since the current Insteon Hub do not contain any sort of IR ability.

 

So the question is, will this new Harmony Hub work with the ISY994?

 

I wonder what abilities it actually has and how you program it. Can it do 'if', 'else'?

 

Interesting?

 

Rob

 

[elvisimprsntr]

http://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/2015/7/31/control-insteon-devices-from-your-logitech-harmony-hub

 

Based on my interpretation it appears the Harmony Hub communicates to the Insteon Hub thru SH cloud services.

 

For the ISY to enjoy the same capabilities, UDI would have to lift their no cloud based dependency position and of course work with Logitech to define the API. I do know UDI is working on their own portal, so maybe they are softening.

 

Update: Harmony does not work with all models of the Insteon Hub. Scroll to bottom.

 

https://support.myharmony.com/en/harmony-experience-with-insteon

Edited September 3, 2015 by elvisimprsntr

[rlanza1054]

I just called Logitech today to find out some information on what I needed to purchase.

 

I wrote more in another thread.

 

But here is the short of it:

 

I don't have to purchase one single thing.

 

It seems I already own it!

 

I had pruchased two Harmony Ultimate's that I got about 3 years ago (I purchased it pre-release, a first time user), at the tine each one was $375. So I had spent $750 on a remote control for the TV.

 

I had one in the Livingroom and one in the Bedroom.  The actual remote in your hands is not the thing that sends out the IR signals, it comes from the HUB, unless the HUB is down or you set a particular device to use the handheld remote. Since then I added their cheap remote which do not contain a touchscreen and I also purchased the Keyboard, which is a regular keyboard for a PC or Android device (yes, Android has built-in keyboard and mouse support) and can handle Entertainment equipment as well (ex: TV).

 

Anyway, here is what they said, I just need to upgrade the firmware on the Livingroom Harmony Hub, I had done the Bedroom one without realizing it.

 

So I will be doing the firmware upgrade and dusting off the Insteon Hub (model 2245-222) and see how it works.

 

What's great, I was going to spend the $99 just to see what it was about, but decided to call just to verify if I needed anything else.

 

I  saved all that money!

 

I'm happy because today I woke up very depressed over how much work I put into the ISY and still have an issue to be solved (which I'll talk about in another thread).

 

I had said, after I get this Harmony working, I will let everyone that cares, know what it really can do and what it can't do.

 

Rob

[Brian H]

Just remember. Any links the Insteon Hub adds to the modules. Your ISY994i will not know about and could eventually cause link table issues.

[rlanza1054]

Hi,

 

Here is a list of what the Harmony currently supports:

 

SmartThings

 

Honeywell WiFi Thermostat

 

Philips Hue

 

Nest

 

Lutron Smart Bridge

 

LIFX

 

Rheen Water Heater

 

PEQ

 

August

 

Insteon HUB

 

Ecobee Themostat

 

Tested Insteon Hub Models

 

The Harmony Team has validated Insteon Hub model 2245-222 works with Harmony. Find your Insteon Hub model number.

 

The following hubs are known not to work:
•Insteon Hub (HomeKit-enabled) 2243-222
•Insteon Hub with AllJoyn 2243-223
•Insteon Hub Pro 2243-222
•Insteon Hub 2242-222R
•Insteon Hub 2242-442
•Insteon Hub 2242-422

 

I had what is needed, if I want to test it out.

 

Rob

​

[rlanza1054]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the warning.

 

I really just want to see what you can do with the Harmony and the Insteon Hub.

 

I think people might be curious, I am.

 

So here is what I planned on doing to test it out.

 

First, I called Smarthome/Insteon support early today and had them delete my Insteon Hub account.

 

I did that before plugging in the Insteon Hub.

 

I got delayed trying to fix a firmware issue on one of my Harmony Hubs, took the whole day but there support is good.

 

I am going to reset the Insteon Hub to factory defaults and when I do plug it in, I did not want my existing account to put back the devices I had setup before moving to the ISY.

 

So after I do that the Hub should come up clean with nothing on it.

 

I have a couple of modules that I have yet to install or plug in, so they have never been registered or linked to the Insteon Hub or the ISY.

 

I will add only one of those modules to the Insteon Hub only.

 

Then I will setup the Harmony to connect to the Insteon Hub.

 

With the Insteon Hub only having that one module link should be enough to try some of the things that might be available using the Harmony.

 

That should be enough to see how good they did and what is missing.

 

Hopefully, what I'm suggesting won't interfere with the ISY. And to be extra safe, I will unplug both the ISY and the PLM, just to make sure nothing gets written to them,

 

Does this plan sound a reasonable way of test the Harmony and Insteon out without messing anything else up for the ISY? If there is a better way to do this test please let me know.

 

Worst case, I have to factory reset all the Insteon modules, I have made a current backup as well.

 

Rob

[oberkc]

What you are suggesting should not mess with the ISY.

 

Just so you know, it has never been overly complicated to control insteon with a harmony remote, hub or other, or any other IR remote.  Insteon makes an IRLinc, and some versions of the ISY have an IR receiver.  It did not take me very long to have the ISY recongize button presses from a remote control and perform a programmed action.

 

If the goal is, simply, to have the insteon house react to button presses on a remote control, this is quite doable and has been for some time.

[elvisimprsntr]

And I have a 4 yo Harmony Link which I can one tap touch "Watch Movie" which sets up all my AV equipment and turns down the ISY lights. I ran Cat5 in the walls between my theater and living room to extend the IR blaster between rooms for the added bonus of one Link for two rooms.

 

Link - $99 in 2011

Misc wire and keystone jacks - $20

Edited September 4, 2015 by elvisimprsntr

[rlanza1054]

I should point out that I was always able to control lights with Harmony.

 

I actually own two SmartenIt EZ-UIRT's. Which picked up Harmony Remote signals and passed on to Insteon modules via X-10 protocol.

 

But some of the newer Insteon do not contain X-10 and when I looked at what Smarthome had, the ISY with IR won me over.

 

Also, Smarthome steered me away from getting the IRlinc stuff (I forget the reason) and suggested I get the ISY.

 

The other stuff (IRlinc or SmartenIt) was going to be harder to setup. Even with learning curve I'm involed in presently with the ISY.

 

I did get the top-of-line ISY. I loaded it with everything. Its an ISY994i-ZW-IR Pro.

 

I just haven't set the IR stuff up just yet. That's last one on the to do list.

 

I wanted to get everything working as it should before introducing more headaches to solve.

 

I am trying to do this 'slow' as someone suggested I do.

 

Rob

[oberkc]

 

I am trying to do this 'slow' as someone suggested I do.

 

That sounds like good advice.  I am sure the one who recommended it is wise and good looking.

 

I just wanted to point out (in response to your thoughts on integration between the harmony and ISY) that there is already integration to some degree.  Just because the integration does not happen via the ethernet cable does not mean that it does not exist.  There are more than one way that devices can communicate.  IR is one such way.

 

When it comes time to tackle this aspect of your home control, rather than starting with solutions (official hub support of the ISY), instead consider WHAT you want to do (control a light with a remote button).  It is very possible that this can already be done.

[rlanza1054]

Hi all,

 

Well, I managed to setup a single device on the Insteon Hub.

 

I first had unplugged both the ISY and its PLM.

 

I reset my Insteon Hub (model: 2245-222) to a brand new account, Thurssday I had Insteon support delete the existing account so all the devices would be removed if I happened to use the same account. ?I did not want the Hub to contain anything that could mess up the ISY (even though it was turned off) or any Insteon devices installed.

 

I did the Insteon setup from scratch with a new differently named account.

 

That went quickly.

 

I added just one device.

 

I said I would use a brand new unused  device, but I needed an option set on an existing device that the ISY is not offering in the options ('Blink on Traffic). I was told to set that option manually from the switch itself but according to the documentation on the Insteon Wall Dimmer 2487D, its only possible to set the 'Blink On Traffic' using "software via a central controller".

 

So some of these missing options will require a Insteon Hub or the HouseLinc (with its PLM), unless ISY updates the database of Insteon device with these options. It should be easy to find out what these older device options have, just download a copy of the 'device.xml' file for the HouseLinc software, all the settings options are in that file. Hopefully, its a readable file by the ISY team. I remember reading that they did not know how to get the option available for each of these older devices. Unless its illegal to read the device.xml file, that's the place to get the info and not have to rely on the users providing the information for each device they need support for those missing options.

 

Anyway, I added the wall dimmer.

 

I tested it to make the Hub was able to turn it on and off.

 

It did, then I ran the Harmony setup software, which they require you to use the smartphone apps, it cannot at present be done with the PC. You can only use the PC software to add the Insteon in the Home Automation section, but after its added you need to use the smartphone's app to set it into an activity.

 

Once your in the Harmony app on your smartphone (apple or android), you edit your activity to control the Insteon device. Since I had only one device, it only showed me that one device.

 

The device was my Livingroom Sconces, you are then asked how you to control the device (light) when the activity is turned on.

 

My activity I used was to 'watch tv'.

 

So when I turn on that activity it will control the light.

 

The options available for that light was to turn it on and at what dim level.

 

And you can say only turn on the light ALWAYS or SUNSET or SUNRISE.

 

The you are asked how to handle the light when you turn off the activity (the tv).

 

I set it to turn off the light.

 

There are no other options.

 

Unfortunately, I did not have any scenes created so I can't comment on how it would handle a scene.

 

Its kind of cool...but..

 

The bad:

 

You are not able to add the light to a button or screen button. Its not listed as a device.

 

So if you want to change the light in the middle of watching tv, it cannot be done with the activity.

 

You can ONLY from the smartphone app, not the remote, adjust the light while an activity is running but you need to switch to devices in the app.

 

Obviously, people are not going to like that they cannot add the light to a button on the handheld remote.

 

I'm sure Harmony will add these features in the future, they are good about updating the software and adding and fixing the features. You should have seen the Harmony Ultimate with the first version. They have added most of what the users complained about.

 

OK, is this an ISY killer, LOL!...Hahaha... NO way, right now nobody has to be alarmed by it.

 

Is it cool, yes! Will it get better, yes... but it will be years.

 

Rob

 

PS I am glad I tried it. It settle my curiosity! So now what is my plan, to add the ISY stock IR commands to my Harmony, which will provide better abilities than the Insteon integration. I did purchase an ISY with the IRY option. 

[elvisimprsntr]

Thanks for the update.

 

If it is anything like the Harmony Link, even though the ISY controller is not added to its own activity screen, you can manually edit one of the other devices activity screens and add an ISY IR code button. The down side is you can't rename the ISY IR code buttons to something useful, even thru the MyHarmony site. I suspect one can add/fix an existing IR code, but that assumes you have an existing remote to TX the ISY IR codes.

[rlanza1054]

Thanks for the update.

 

If it is anything like the Harmony Link, even though the ISY controller is not added to its own activity screen, you can manually edit one of the other devices activity screens and add an ISY IR code button. The down side is you can't rename the ISY IR code buttons to something useful, even thru the MyHarmony site. I suspect one can add/fix an existing IR code, but that assumes you have an existing remote to TX the ISY IR codes.

 

Hi,

 

Once again, I hit something and lost my entire post to you.

 

So this is the short version.

 

I also have a Harmony Link but don't really use it anymore.  I have two Ultimates the versions that come with the Touchscreen handheld remote.  You are able to rename the ISY code when added it to onscreen button.

 

So I suspect that when you added Universal Devices (manufacturer) and add the model (just type in ISY994, pick out the correct one from the pop-up).

 

Then add it to your activity, example Watch TV. Don't do anything more to it in the activity.

 

Then go to the Harmony app, which is the only way you can control the Harmony Link, since it's was never meant to be used with a handheld remote.

 

When in the Harmony app, you can add the individual buttons to the Watch TV acitivity on the Harmony app, I think when doing that you can rename the an ISY code.

 

I'll check if possible when using my Harmony app, I haven't done that yet anyway. I was more concerned with the handheld.

 

But if you have a remote that can learn IR commands, use that remote to learn each of the ISY IR codes, then go back into the Harmony setup software and go into the ISY device and go to fix command, and re-learn the command from the remote you just learned the ISY and when you re-learn it you are given the option to rename it.  However, I will say that is a lot of work.

 

Let me see what can be done with Harmony app when adding a ISY code to an Activity, I believe you can rename it.

 

As I said, I will try and post another message with results.

 

Rob

[rlanza1054]

Thanks for the update.

 

If it is anything like the Harmony Link, even though the ISY controller is not added to its own activity screen, you can manually edit one of the other devices activity screens and add an ISY IR code button. The down side is you can't rename the ISY IR code buttons to something useful, even thru the MyHarmony site. I suspect one can add/fix an existing IR code, but that assumes you have an existing remote to TX the ISY IR codes.

 

Hi,

 

Wow, your right, there doesn't seem to be a way to rename it using the App.

 

It can be done for the screen buttons of the Touchscreen handheld remote.

 

I would put in a feature request to Harmony asking for the ability to rename a code without needing to learn it again from scratch.

 

You know I have some of the very old Harmony remotes which used the locate app not this new web based software. I remember in that you could rename codes.

 

If you have that windows application for an older Harmony remote, add the ISY into that older remote, rename the codes, then you can actually import an activity and device using the new web based software. But it would require you to delete your Harmony Link completely, which would remove all settings, when you go to add it back in, the software asks you if you are upgrading from an old Harmony remote.

 

Make sure your old software still works before even attempting this.

 

Granted its work but if you really want this it is a way.

 

Rob