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Why use ELK when you have Insteon/ISY?


Blackbird

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Hard wired sensors are more reliable. Elk is on battery backup and works during power loss. Ability to disable security system is more secure. Elk, I believe, can be monitored by service, if desired. Insteon cannot send notifications if internet is disrupted.

 

I am sure there are other reasons, but it comes down to reliability and resistance to defeat by those who would do you harm. How "secure" do youneed to be? What do you perceive are your threats?

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Elk is a formal, recognized alarm system. It provides the supervision feature of its sensors, meaning the main controller confirms regularly that the sensors are functioning as part of certified design. This was pointed out by Michael in question 4 of your previous post.

 

I believe Elk Supervision extends to sensors and contacts as well.

 

Your insurance company would most likely provide discounts for a supervised system, and likely not recognize an insteon based, unsupervised, system.

 

The main benefit of Elk is that its a formally recognized supervised system and it can be installed by DIYs and extended to other HA capabilities by DIYs.

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As others have indicated already the distinction is the ELK system is purpose built and meets most UL / cUL security requirements.

 

It does not meet them all hence why you will never see this device ever installed, used, deployed in a real world commercial enterprise spaces whether that be banks, military, hospital, police, EMS, fortune 100 company.

 

Insteon is not endorsed, certified, or under written to fill this need but many people use it as such as a extra layer in existing systems in place.

 

People need to be honest about what their over all intent is when speaking about security. The primary aspect, security is a lifestyle which integrates with other systems in place. People have to understand that to protect life vs property requires a change in attitude and flexibility to invest the right amount of desire, money, and infrastructure.

 

Often times (99%) of the people grasps for the easy solution which are noise makers which offer no real force protection or threat avoidance.  

 

There are 4 rings to security and each aspect plays an essential role in hardening a target. Most people don't get past the first ring and that is the idea, plan, goal. Just because you (not you but you get what I mean ha) have an idea about getting an alarm system does that really translate to security?

 

No . . .

 

Will a siren wailing in the back ground stop me from breaking down a door? Will it stop me from taking your possessions? Will it even stop me from shooting you or taking a random large rock and knocking you over the head?

 

No . . .

 

What then will stop a person from breaching a home, building, structure?

 

Force protection, guard dog, perimeter fencing etc.

 

Even this is only another ring of security the first level is completing a threat assessment and identifying low / high risk areas of penetration.

 

Once that is known the next step is increase the level of force protection in and around the homes super structure. The next ring which comes is notification, advanced warning, and reactive elements. To save my fingers from typing out a novel I am going to over generalize here as the above are separate but distinct elements in the 4 rings of security which are essentially sub systems of the ring.

 

Signs indicating the premises are secured and monitored are one. Next is alerting the general public these premises are monitored via CCTV. Next are reactive elements like motion lights, strobes, sirens, fencing, etc

 

The above keeps you aware which is the primary ring (situational awareness) and makes the intruder aware their presence has been detected well outside of the breach line. In industrial and enterprise locations sentries are placed as many communities also offer patrol officers to provide guard duties etc. While others have trained dogs to survey and protect the breach line.

 

Should the breach line be crossed the reactive elements are in play and that is human vs dog. Man vs man but assume there are no guards, no dog what does a person rely on for the next ring?

 

Force protection of the super structure of the building, which are out swinging security gates with grade 1 lock sets. Keeping in mind having the best door in the world wont help you if the frame its attached to is not reinforced and capable of breach impact.

 

This is why the door jambs, hinges, and strike plates on the door and frame need to be supported. Millions of people all over the world have 90% full glazed windows as door and even worse most of them have side windows that strattle either side of the door.

 

WTF???

 

Better yet more than 40% of the population have 50% of their home completely hidden by trees, bushes, and random objects. Meaning every basement window, upper window, side door is easily broken into with out a single eye ball to be seen.

 

Keeping in mind 99% of all alarm installs do not even cover the largest door in your home which is the garage door! Why would anyone have an alarm system installed and not monitor the largest door leading into a persons home?

 

Even worse more than 50% of all homes do not have or use the lower door knob as a lock and rely on the dead bolt?

 

WTF???

 

Since my fingers are dead tired from typing this novel some basics to keep in mind: What are you trying to protect life / property / both? Do you have the proper home owners insurance to cover any loss? Do you and have you taken pictures and video's of the premises along with asset audit with your insurer?

 

What is your budget and is it realistic?

 

Are you willing and your family willing to make basic to global changes to their lifestyle? Do you even know what your threat assessment is when compared to others in your area? Are you and is your area part of a neighbor hood watch program where the police have come down and validate the area has enough people with like minds and buy in?

 

No body is better at watching your aszz then that old lady across the way who loves to keep her nose in all things, none.

 

Ha . . .

 

Security is a lifestyle and ultimately it takes a few years before people realize its something that evolves on a long term basis. 

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As others have indicated already the distinction is the ELK system is purpose built and meets most UL / cUL security requirements.

 

It does not meet them all hence why you will never see this device ever installed, used, deployed in a real world commercial enterprise spaces whether that be banks, military, hospital, police, EMS, fortune 100 company.

 

Insteon is not endorsed, certified, or under written to fill this need but many people use it as such as a extra layer in existing systems in place.

Just wanted to clarify, are you saying that the ELK wouldn't be used in the real world for security or Insteon?

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Not if you're a banker, military woman or man, law enforcer, emergency medical service provider or a Fortune 100 company.  B) thewise, you should be be B) K

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I use ine for a security system but I don't expect perfection.

 

I have received nuisance notifications from MS units a few times.

You are in the Caribbean on vacation and an MS falses. Now what do you do?

 

Sip a rum and coke.

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Insurance companies will recognize the Elk M1 as a valid system, thereby reducing your rates. Having a 3rd party certified alarm system could affect your claims too, especially if you've told your insurance company you have an alarm system.

My insurance company give me a discount on my insurance for having an Elk M1, but it needed to be monitored by a UL certified monitoring company to qualify for the discount.
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  • 8 months later...

Can ELK communicate with Police in case of an Alarm like other services?

 

If someone breaks a glass, will that trigger the alarm?

Can I ask a company to work with ELK to visit my house if the alarm triggers on?

Many alarm systems allow 'subscription' and then when you get home, they call you so you can give them a special code. If you don't give them the code, they send a person for security.

 

Other systems if there is a glass break call you, if you don't pick up, they call the police.

 

Anybody has experience with this?

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Can ELK communicate with Police in case of an Alarm like other services?

 

If someone breaks a glass, will that trigger the alarm?

 

Can I ask a company to work with ELK to visit my house if the alarm triggers on?

 

Many alarm systems allow 'subscription' and then when you get home, they call you so you can give them a special code. If you don't give them the code, they send a person for security.

 

Other systems if there is a glass break call you, if you don't pick up, they call the police.

 

Anybody has experience with this?

Yes to all of your questions.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

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Yes to all of your questions.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

 

Do you have ELK?

 

Would you recommend it?

 

If I have 2 doors, 7 windows would you be so kind to let me know what I need to buy?

 

And if you can please, help me calculate how much it will cost?

 

I know it's expensive, but I do see this as a great investment for my house.

 

 

 

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Do you have ELK?

 

Would you recommend it?

 

If I have 2 doors, 7 windows would you be so kind to let me know what I need to buy?

 

And if you can please, help me calculate how much it will cost?

 

I know it's expensive, but I do see this as a great investment for my house.

Yes and yes.

 

The basic M1 will handle 16 inputs. You should be able to install a system for about $1000.

 

I just spent about $4000 to secure my house with 64 inputs and 32 outputs.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

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Yes and yes.

 

The basic M1 will handle 16 inputs. You should be able to install a system for about $1000.

 

I just spent about $4000 to secure my house with 64 inputs and 32 outputs.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

 

Thanks for your response

 

Which one of these should I buy?

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ELK+M1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AELK+M1

 

There is a Gold Kit and a Gold Kit Ready to Install.

They also sell the Enclosure only, maybe I can buy that and start from there?

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