ulrick65 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I have 49 new switchlinc dimmers due to arrive at my house tomorrow for installation over the coming week. I am guessing they will all be 4.x versions. In light of recent events with I2 and issues arising with newer firmware versions, newer switches, etc. I am wondering if I even want to install these or not. I am in a bit of a unique position in that I have 20 SLD's version 3.3 with datecodes in the first qtr of 2008 that I could install instead, but I thought installing the new versions would be better. I am looking for input: Should I install the 4.x's and sell any remaining 3.3's that I have left or install the 3.3's and sell the remaining 4.x's? What is currently to be gained (or lost) by installing the 4.x's? What might I gain in the future with the 4.x's assuming we get the I2 debacle ironed out? Lastly: Any thoughts on Keypadlinc's? Is there benefit to the newer versions over the older versions? Are the new ones of these I2 as well and if so what does that give us (or take away as the case may be)? Eric Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Hello Eric, My recommendation is to use the new ones on switch at a time. I am not yet convinced that the new SWLs are going to be trouble free. With kind regards, Michel I have 49 new switchlinc dimmers due to arrive at my house tomorrow for installation over the coming week. I am guessing they will all be 4.x versions. In light of recent events with I2 and issues arising with newer firmware versions, newer switches, etc. I am wondering if I even want to install these or not. I am in a bit of a unique position in that I have 20 SLD's version 3.3 with datecodes in the first qtr of 2008 that I could install instead, but I thought installing the new versions would be better. I am looking for input: Should I install the 4.x's and sell any remaining 3.3's that I have left or install the 3.3's and sell the remaining 4.x's? What is currently to be gained (or lost) by installing the 4.x's? What might I gain in the future with the 4.x's assuming we get the I2 debacle ironed out? Lastly: Any thoughts on Keypadlinc's? Is there benefit to the newer versions over the older versions? Are the new ones of these I2 as well and if so what does that give us (or take away as the case may be)? Eric Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Michel, Something I have been wondering about I2, I1, etc. that maybe you can clear up for me: I saw in one of your posts that you mentioned that the RL programs with I2...it takes a long time, goes out of program mode, etc. I think a lot of us agree that I2 is not helping us much...so one question: How did we program our RL's back when we had 2.6.8 and ISY was not I2 savy like it is in 2.6.13? Why don't we just change to I1 only and run that way? I am assuming because some devices (like the motion sensor) are I2 only? If that is the case, then let's say I didn't have ISY...I would not be able to use my new motion sensor with any SWL older than say 3.5? Just some things I wonder about when I sit alone in the dark... Thanks. Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Hello Eric, We have to support i2 since new devices (such as Motion Sensors, Thermostats, new SWLs and KPLs) do not respond to PEEK/POKE and thus we can never write slave links in them. Therefore, ISY would not be able to program your scenes when you have a mixture of i1 and i2. The manual linking process between i1/i2 devices should continue to work since the writing of the db entries is done internally to each device and does not depend on the protocol. I am sure we'll eventually find all the issues and fix them especially now that SH is interested in the bugs we are seeing. Thanks so very much, With kind regards, Michel Michel, Something I have been wondering about I2, I1, etc. that maybe you can clear up for me: I saw in one of your posts that you mentioned that the RL programs with I2...it takes a long time, goes out of program mode, etc. I think a lot of us agree that I2 is not helping us much...so one question: How did we program our RL's back when we had 2.6.8 and ISY was not I2 savy like it is in 2.6.13? Why don't we just change to I1 only and run that way? I am assuming because some devices (like the motion sensor) are I2 only? If that is the case, then let's say I didn't have ISY...I would not be able to use my new motion sensor with any SWL older than say 3.5? Just some things I wonder about when I sit alone in the dark... Thanks. Link to comment
jhimmel Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I am sure we'll eventually find all the issues and fix them especially now that SH is interested in the bugs we are seeing. Is there a danger that the "fix" will involve yet more replacing of devices for corrective firmware? Jim H. Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 That makes sense...someday I gotta read up on how the guts of the protocol, linking, etc. works...I am interested. Any recommended reading you can point me to? Hello Eric, We have to support i2 since new devices (such as Motion Sensors, Thermostats, new SWLs and KPLs) do not respond to PEEK/POKE and thus we can never write slave links in them. Therefore, ISY would not be able to program your scenes when you have a mixture of i1 and i2. The manual linking process between i1/i2 devices should continue to work since the writing of the db entries is done internally to each device and does not depend on the protocol. I am sure we'll eventually find all the issues and fix them especially now that SH is interested in the bugs we are seeing. Thanks so very much, With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Hello Jim, Yes, it's quite possible especially on LLs, SWLs, and KPLs (the newer ones). Hi Erirc, the best place would be http://code.insteon.net but I think you can do a lot more valuable things with your time! With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
wwat Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I am sure we'll eventually find all the issues and fix them especially now that SH is interested in the bugs we are seeing. Is there a danger that the "fix" will involve yet more replacing of devices for corrective firmware? Jim H. Would replacement under these circumstances be covered under the warrenty. Does anyone know.? Wayne Link to comment
MikeB Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Would replacement under these circumstances be covered under the warrenty. Does anyone know.? If there are firmware issues stopping the correct operation of a device, I'm certain Smarthome will replace them under warranty. In my experience they've always been excellent to deal with. Link to comment
upstatemike Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Is there a danger that the "fix" will involve yet more replacing of devices for corrective firmware? Jim H. This is the big problem that everyone is concerned about. For small installations (less than 50 devices say) it is just annoying but for large installations it is absolutely catastrophic. Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 I agree. In fact, I got most of my devices from a pro that just gave up on it. He had so much trouble, recalls to the site, phone calls from angry customers, etc. that he just quit using Insteon for his low end stuff...switched over to Control 4. It was the paddle issue that finally did it for him... I think Smarthome needs a much better Alpha and Beta program on their devices. Maybe Michel can hook us up and we can run special Beta group from this forum? Kind of joking....but really if you think about it, there are many people with ISY that really put these devices to the test much more than "normal" people. Linking, relinking, programming, etc. plus a much smaller group. Is there a danger that the "fix" will involve yet more replacing of devices for corrective firmware? Jim H. This is the big problem that everyone is concerned about. For small installations (less than 50 devices say) it is just annoying but for large installations it is absolutely catastrophic. Link to comment
upstatemike Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I understand where your installer friend is coming from and I am getting close to similiar decision myself. My problem is that I can't afford the time it takes to apply each iteration of issue resolution (paddle issue, firmware issues, I2 issues) across an installation this size. It is one thing to evolve and grow the environment but quite another to keep revisiting already installed devicess over and over and a couple of years down the road to still not have things to a point of being stable and reliable. Unfortuately the other protocol options are also facing issues of their own so there is no clear "go forward strategy" that stands out. Besides my own issues I am supporting some local electricians who are beginning to install smart switches and I need to decide where to go from here. I'm thinking of opening a discussion on CocooonTech this evening on this topic. I agree. In fact, I got most of my devices from a pro that just gave up on it. He had so much trouble, recalls to the site, phone calls from angry customers, etc. that he just quit using Insteon for his low end stuff...switched over to Control 4. It was the paddle issue that finally did it for him... I think Smarthome needs a much better Alpha and Beta program on their devices. Maybe Michel can hook us up and we can run special Beta group from this forum? Kind of joking....but really if you think about it, there are many people with ISY that really put these devices to the test much more than "normal" people. Linking, relinking, programming, etc. plus a much smaller group. Link to comment
MikeB Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I think Smarthome needs a much better Alpha and Beta program on their devices. Not sure if they're still looking for testers, but consider posting here: http://www.techmall.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2358 Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 I did post there back a bit...probably not looking for anymore. I wasn't really trying to get in on the beta testing necessarily...just saying that it seems like when they make changes to stuff (or new products) it seems like there are issues that should have been caught in a good beta program. I am not upset with SH or trying to bash them...in fact I think they do a pretty good job of making things right once they find a problem, it just seems to me that more testing would be better for them (and us) up front. I think Smarthome needs a much better Alpha and Beta program on their devices. Not sure if they're still looking for testers, but consider posting here: http://www.techmall.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2358 Link to comment
MikeB Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 it seems like there are issues that should have been caught in a good beta program. I agree, and the more advanced users in their beta program the better. Link to comment
rowland Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Actually, SH has a really excellent beta program. Lots of very experienced users that try out new and old products in a wide array of applications. Many, many, many problems have been discovered by the beta users. SH has done an excellent job of developing the beta program; it just runs itself. And, SH has managed to get the beta users pay SH to be in the program. The only problem with the beta program is that all of the people in this forum are in the program. As far as I can tell there are no actual end users of SH products, just beta users. [/rant] Link to comment
ResIpsa Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I am not a beta tester. It's the story of my life, really: Never part of the "in crowd." The only problem with the beta program is that all of the people in this forum are in the program. As far as I can tell there are no actual end users of SH products, just beta users. Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Good point... Glad you agree with me! Actually, SH has a really excellent beta program. Lots of very experienced users that try out new and old products in a wide array of applications. Many, many, many problems have been discovered by the beta users. SH has done an excellent job of developing the beta program; it just runs itself. And, SH has managed to get the beta users pay SH to be in the program. The only problem with the beta program is that all of the people in this forum are in the program. As far as I can tell there are no actual end users of SH products, just beta users. [/rant] Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 I think what rowland was trying to say is the we are all "beta" testers...since all of the products never seem to get to a final "released" state and therefore there are no real "end users". Ahhh...the joys of home automation. Someday it will just work, right out of the box and we all yearn for the days we got to fiddle with stuff all night long and argue with the wife about why it is necessary (and cool) to have. Until then...test on my friends! I am not a beta tester. It's the story of my life, really: Never part of the "in crowd." The only problem with the beta program is that all of the people in this forum are in the program. As far as I can tell there are no actual end users of SH products, just beta users. Link to comment
gregoryx Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Actually, SH has a really excellent beta program. Lots of very experienced users that try out new and old products in a wide array of applications. Many, many, many problems have been discovered by the beta users. SH has done an excellent job of developing the beta program; it just runs itself. And, SH has managed to get the beta users pay SH to be in the program. The only problem with the beta program is that all of the people in this forum are in the program. As far as I can tell there are no actual end users of SH products, just beta users. [/rant] TRUE DAT. Still... they work some of the time... eventually... mostly... maybe... Link to comment
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