xgfreon Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Hello I have been slowly incorporating insteon/zwave devices in the home. The last ones on my list are the main living room lights. There are 4 locations that have on/off switch boxes that control the same set of can lights. I only care about being able to Dim the lights from 1 location and/or using mobilinc. In order to make it a full insteon setup I would imagine I have to buy 4 switches ($200.00) and rewire the travel wire setup which is why I have not done so just to control one set of lights. I am thinking I should be able to keep all my existing on/off switches and install a micro on/off dimmer module located behind the last feed that actually controls the load. Then I should be able to just install only 1 insteon dimmer switch at my preffered location and have it only control the load through programming it to the micro module as a controller and not hooking anything up to the load wire correct?? my other question is once i install the insteon dimmer switch and hook nothing up to load wires. what do i do with the existing 3 way wiring to keep the other switches working as they were.
stusviews Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Whether you can use a single Micro Module plus a dimmer depends on the current wiring. Describe the wiring at each switch location, especially the end switches which will be 3-way switches (3 connections/screws). The other two switches will be 4-way (4 connections/screws).
builderb Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Micro module plus 1 switch is still a hundred bucks. I'd say just bite the bullet and spend the extra hundred to do it right. Or wait till there's a sale on a 4-pack of dimmer switches, and you'll only spend $150.
larryllix01 Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 If you switch the power off to zinsteon devices they have to re-establish connections each time and they will not remember their dim levels.
stusviews Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Insteon dimmers remember their pre-set On-level even if power is lost. Some dimmers can be set to return to the last On-Level rather than the pre-set level--even if power is lost.
xgfreon Posted March 4, 2016 Author Posted March 4, 2016 Micro module plus 1 switch is still a hundred bucks. I'd say just bite the bullet and spend the extra hundred to do it right. Or wait till there's a sale on a 4-pack of dimmer switches, and you'll only spend $150. That would be fine if I only had 1 set of lights. but I actually have 4 sets of can lights that all have 4 entry's so now we are talking 1600.00 vs 800.00 I just bought 1 dimmer and 1 micro to test. Btw the micros and dimmers are on clearance at menards for 35.00 ea. Once i get the boxes opened up (tomorrow) I will post the wiring I see according to where I would like to place the insteon switch. Thanks for the help guys.
apnar Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 I considered the same micro approach. The catch for me was it is only rated at 100w. With LEDs that might be doable now but I hadn't converted yet. I ended up replacing all the switches and have been very happy with the decision. As to cost, I usually grab the 4 packs from costco online for about $160.
xgfreon Posted March 4, 2016 Author Posted March 4, 2016 I considered the same micro approach. The catch for me was it is only rated at 100w. With LEDs that might be doable now but I hadn't converted yet. I ended up replacing all the switches and have been very happy with the decision. As to cost, I usually grab the 4 packs from costco online for about $160. the aeotech zwave micros are rated at 300w
stusviews Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 I don't know about the Aeotech Micros, but most Z-Wave devices do not report their status (unless queried) and therefore cannot be used to trigger a program.
apnar Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Also the thing about the micro in this case that makes it work is the "sense" capability allowing the use of the normal switches.
builderb Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 That would be fine if I only had 1 set of lights. but I actually have 4 sets of can lights that all have 4 entry's so now we are talking 1600.00 vs 800.00 I just bought 1 dimmer and 1 micro to test. Btw the micros and dimmers are on clearance at menards for 35.00 ea. Once i get the boxes opened up (tomorrow) I will post the wiring I see according to where I would like to place the insteon switch. Thanks for the help guys. Ouch! At that scale, have you considered having an electrician come in and re-wire the entries to simplify things? (Or doing it yourself, if you're so inclined.) I would assume you could ditch all other switches besides the one dimmer one, wire the rest together and abandon the traveler wires. Put blank plates on the other locations. Then if you do decide to add more switches back in over time, it shouldn't be difficult. Of course, I have no idea if that fits your usage needs, so I'm just throwing it out there, but I'd be loath to leave working dumb switches on an Insteon-controlled circuit. IMHO, the whole point of Insteon is to centralize control of the circuits. My personal goal is that I like things to pass "the babysitter test", wherein a person totally unfamiliar with my house specifically, and smart electronics in general, can walk in and operate anything they need to intuitively, while also not messing up any of my control schemes. Having a switch that can kill a circuit I'm expecting to control remotely is a violation of that rule for me.
stusviews Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 An advantage of Insteon is that you can do one job at a time. I started with a few devices. I have more than 100 now, but that took years
builderb Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 An advantage of Insteon is that you can do one job at a time. I started with a few devices. I have more than 100 now, but that took years It's digital crack, I tell ya... Once you start down that path, there's no telling where you'll end up! But yes, this is exactly why I chose Insteon, way back when I knew nothing about home automation and I was trying to decide what protocol to pick. I could start with two devices for an investment of $130, and scale all the way up to a full-blown system as time and money allowed, and every bit of it could be DIY. I've got 40 or so devices now, and still growing. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
fryfrog Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) So you have one set of can lights that is controlled by 4 or 5 switches?Once you untangle the switch legs, you can do whatever you want. You'll need one switch at the load, but all the other switches are "optional". So if you don't *really* want 4 or 5 switches controlling the lights, you can just cap half of the traveler (red?) and wire the other half together (black?). Then just put a non-load switch in any location you want one. Or don't, if the load happens to be exactly where you want a switch. Edited March 5, 2016 by fryfrog
xgfreon Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 So you have one set of can lights that is controlled by 4 or 5 switches? Once you untangle the switch legs, you can do whatever you want. You'll need one switch at the load, but all the other switches are "optional". So if you don't *really* want 4 or 5 switches controlling the lights, you can just cap half of the traveler (red?) and wire the other half together (black?). Then just put a non-load switch in any location you want one. Or don't, if the load happens to be exactly where you want a switch. Yes i was going by memory at the time of my initial posting. Its actually 3 sets of cans. 2 of the sets have 3 lights and are dimmable LED. the 3rd set has 7 lights of the same dimmable led's. the 2 sets with 3 lights in each are controlled by 3 locations. the 7light setup is actually only controlled at 2. After speaking with my wife, we realize that the 2 sets that are controlled from 3 locations we can delete one switch altogether and control from 2. so I will post my wiring diagram shortly and go from there.
larryllix01 Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 This is going to be simplest to just install Switchlinc dimmers for all. Then you connect and reconnect your Insteon pathways anyway you want and also change your mind as often as you want or until the wife kicks you out, whichever comes sooner. The bonuses would be dimming, automatic control/ motion sensor activation, and auto off timing, and other HA advantages. Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk
xgfreon Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 Ok here is the setup. I have changed my mind on the micros. Just not sure what im doing with the travelers. I assume for the 4 ways that I want to delete anyways i just wire reds together and blacks together then put blank cover on? Here is links to my images in full size. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4371738/Pics/Lights/drawing.JP https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4371738/Pics/Lights/Box1.JPG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4371738/Pics/Lights/Box2.JPG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4371738/Pics/Lights/Box3.JPG so delete box 2. wire in insteon dimmers at box 1 with power input and box 3 with power to loads.
builderb Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 I don't have any three-way lights here, but as I recall, you want to keep the wire pathway connected straight through from the panel until you hit the last switch before the load. That's where you interrupt it physically with a switch. Any other Insteon switches connected upstream of that location will tap into the hot and neutral lines, but have their load wire capped. Traveler wires get capped and abandoned (I'd label them too, while I was at it, just to be a nice guy). Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
xgfreon Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 Yes I plan to cap and leave notes inside the box for my memory in case i move and want to take my stuff with me.
stusviews Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 At each box with a 3-way switch cap the red wires separately. At the box with the 4-way switches, cap the red wire pair from each switch together. This is not required, but will help in the event 4-ways are put back in. None of the red wires will actually be used. Connect all black wire together and install insteon devices (SwithLincs or KPLs) at boxes 1 and 2. Cap the Insteon load (red) wires separately. At box 3, the wire connected to the black screw is the load.
xgfreon Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 all set with the wiring now guys, thanks. Now on to the programming......
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