G W Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 NOW AVAILABLE! Dual-Path Alarm Communicator (GSM Version) ELK-C1M14GSM Seconds count in an emergency situation to save lives and assets. ELK's new C1M1 Dual Path Communicator significantly reduces transmission time of emergency messages. It connects directly to the M1 Control and does not require dial capture or data bus decoding which leads to delays with other communicators. In addition, there is no cloud server to compromise or delay the communications. C1M1 provides super-fast, full data communications to Central Monitoring Stations over IP and cellular pathways. Transmissions are automatically directed over the best pathway for quickest communications. Periodic tests are sent over both pathways to ensure reliable communications and C1M1 can automatically report a pathway outage over the remaining pathway. C1M1 also supports remote access with no port forwarding or extra fees. Installers can easily activate and manage C1M1 communicators, as well as remotely program the M1 control over the IP or cellular pathway. End users can remotely arm/disarm the M1 control in addition to viewing system status, accessing recent history, and receiving email/text alerts. CDMA Version Coming Soon! ELK-C1M1CDMA Duel-Path Alarm Communicator http://www.elkproducts.com/products/elk-c1m14gsm-dual-path-alarm-communicator Scott, I want one. Best regards, Gary Funk
giesen Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Anyone know if the protocol to interface to it is the same as the M1XEP? (I get the impression that the answer is no). And that leads to the second question... if the answer is no... has UDI been in contact with Elk to start working on support for it? Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
G W Posted August 18, 2016 Author Posted August 18, 2016 Anyone know if the protocol to interface to it is the same as the M1XEP? (I get the impression that the answer is no). And that leads to the second question... if the answer is no... has UDI been in contact with Elk to start working on support for it? Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk You need to read the the documentation. This is a secure product for report alarm status. This isn't something for third-party add-ons. Best regards, Gary Funk
giesen Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 The problem is it occupies the main serial port on the M1, so it's either this or the M1XEP. And they've already announced eKeypad and M1 Touch support is coming... Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Looks like a nice product! For those of us with a HAI C3 dialler facing the deprecation of 2G this might be a good option. I wonder if it has POTS pass-thru. Looks like it replaces the M1XEP as well (as mentioned above).... and does portal-esq outbound connection to allow remote control. I'm not so sure about that.... but it is what it is. I would assume that the work for eKeypad is about allowing it to work with the portal... ISY-Elk communication is the native serial protocol over a TCP socket. As long as it provides the socket, I would think it should just work. There may not be any work needed on ISY for it to work. I think I might try!
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Hmmmm. Their page says 'Cellular Service Powered by TELGUARD'. I wonder if the cell radio is locked - or will I be able to use my T-Mobile SIM (that I pay about $2.20/month for as a result of years worth of prepaid gold status....)
G W Posted August 18, 2016 Author Posted August 18, 2016 I don't know but I suspect the data channel is encrypted since this is a professional product. It may be that it only works with TELGUARD. Best regards, Gary Funk
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 I don't know but I suspect the data channel is encrypted since this is a professional product. It may be that it only works with TELGUARD. Best regards, Gary Funk That's what I'm thinking - which effectively locks me out of it... Oh well.
Scottmichaelj Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Ill contact Elk today and report back. If you have more question please post aonI can get them answered for you.
fryfrog Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 This looks like exactly what I want, surely they've considered the fact that it replaces the M1XEP? Why couldn't it do that too? Anyway, I sent them a message. :/
Scottmichaelj Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Looks like a nice product! For those of us with a HAI C3 dialler facing the deprecation of 2G this might be a good option. I wonder if it has POTS pass-thru. Looks like it replaces the M1XEP as well (as mentioned above).... and does portal-esq outbound connection to allow remote control. I'm not so sure about that.... but it is what it is. I would assume that the work for eKeypad is about allowing it to work with the portal... ISY-Elk communication is the native serial protocol over a TCP socket. As long as it provides the socket, I would think it should just work. There may not be any work needed on ISY for it to work. I think I might try! I'm the same boat and need to update myself. I have mine as an extra line with my cell service at $10 a month. I been using alarm relay and they have their own iptel now ($180) that you can connect directly to the M1G ring/tip/power. However there is an additional cost per month/year with them (I think $10 more too) and it runs on the Verizon network. I did also find Honeywell but verified it wasn't compatible. Telgaurd and Uplink both require their network and channels so you can't use your own sim card. So I think we might not have the option for a "bring your own sim" on a device anymore. The other option is using the internet as the primary line then add a secondary internet backup via cellular. This way if your internet at home goes down you can always have a backup. However there are issues with this is the family could burn through the data plan in a short timeframe if the internet does go down. Guess it all depends on each household and if your internet goes down often. Personally my internet hasn't had an issue being down in years. If I am going to be forced to pay more I might as well get dual use from it rather than just a dedicated backup cell line for the alarm. This way if my internet does go down I don't skip a beat. I thought a "hot spot" device might work good too for dual use. I'm just brainstorming and talking out loud here. Feedback welcomed.
fryfrog Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 You could also maybe go dual WAN w/ DSL as the second connection. At least that way, you wouldn't be dependent on cellular data plans *and* you could actually use both at the same time instead of as a failover.
Scottmichaelj Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 So I contacted ELK and here is what I found out. -You can not use the XEP with the C1M1 and there is no passthrough. -The C1M1 uses Telguard and requires you to use their service (through the Alarm Monitoring Company) so no "bring your own sim". Again I have looked and I can't find a "bring your own sim to any device" so far. -To confuse you more, the C1M1 can actually work with other Home Automation devices but not the ISY. It can work via drivers with RTI, Control4, etc. -Also don't get too excited about the "APP" - it only pushes "Arm" and "Disarmed" and you loose the 16 email addresses with customizations that are in the XEP. -It is not intended or planned to replace the XEP ...So over all new product "MEH" If you have anything else I missed and you want answers to let me know and I will do my best to get them.
Teken Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Not sure what people are expecting from a company that produces and sells hardware based on 1990 technology? I'm not sure why this company is only coming out with such communications support. Most if not all the major vendors have been producing 2G, 3G, 4G, GSM, cellular units for years. I know the folks who own and use the ELK security alarm system like the tight HA integration. But, at some point the hardware really needs to be updated to 2016 standards. It should be noted several companies offer dual SIM capability and also don't require you to be locked into a CS vendor and have the ability to *Bring your own* SIM's. Though most of them are vendor specific but some also have universal modules which enable 3rd party support too.
giesen Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Ask them if they intended the C1M1 to be a giant bag of suck on purpose, or if it was just an accident... Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Teken Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Ask them if they intended the C1M1 to be a giant bag of suck on purpose, or if it was just an accident... Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk LMAO, no comment . . .
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 So I contacted ELK and here is what I found out. -You can not use the XEP with the C1M1 and there is no passthrough. -The C1M1 uses Telguard and requires you to use their service (through the Alarm Monitoring Company) so no "bring your own sim". Again I have looked and I can't find a "bring your own sim to any device" so far. -To confuse you more, the C1M1 can actually work with other Home Automation devices but not the ISY. It can work via drivers with RTI, Control4, etc. -Also don't get too excited about the "APP" - it only pushes "Arm" and "Disarmed" and you loose the 16 email addresses with customizations that are in the XEP. -It is not intended or planned to replace the XEP ...So over all new product "MEH" If you have anything else I missed and you want answers to let me know and I will do my best to get them. I guess you can tell them it's going to be a tough sell! I'm also using Alarm Relay and my own SIM, and I'm not about to change either just so I can use their communicator. I'll also keep an eye out for a 3G or LTE version of the HAI C3.
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Expensive, but I think this would work on 3G and provide a dial tone for the elk - just like the HAI C3... http://www.ericssonw35.com/
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 If you use Verizon, this would work I think... https://www.amazon.com/Novatel-Verizon-Broadband-Router-T1114/dp/B00JL57PMG/ref=sr_1_1 No good for me though..
Scottmichaelj Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Expensive, but I think this would work on 3G and provide a dial tone for the elk - just like the HAI C3... http://www.ericssonw35.com/ Their reseller is charging $585! Wow - I made some calls and none of my distributors sell it either. If you use Verizon, this would work I think... https://www.amazon.com/Novatel-Verizon-Broadband-Router-T1114/dp/B00JL57PMG/ref=sr_1_1 No good for me though.. I have ATT Wireless - wonder if we could get a gophone sim to work from another carrier though for savings?
Scottmichaelj Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Ask them if they intended the C1M1 to be a giant bag of suck on purpose, or if it was just an accident... Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk They are thinking cloud not HA. I also get the feeling they only care now about the bigger guys like RTI, Savant, Control4, etc since there is absolutely NO movement on the SSL fix with ISY and they acted like they didn't care. I am not trying to bring up an old sensitive subject so please lets leave it at that. This also would go for Homeseer and the rest so not singling anyone out.
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Another interesting option - it talks to any Bluetooh cell over Bluetooth - and provides a dialtone. POTS passthru as well... http://www.thehightechstore.com/mylink.html I'm not sure the alarm signalling will work across bluetooth though - same way it's bad using VoIP... At $75 it might be worth a try...
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Here is an AT&T option.... https://www.amazon.com/At-Wireless-Home-Phone-Base/dp/B00B5HLP9C/ref=sr_1_43 Another 'out-there' option.... A GSM to SIP gateway (https://www.amazon.com/Gateway-GOIP-1-Support-Asterisk-Trixbox/dp/B00L11NO5U/ref=sr_1_3) and a FXS/FXO adapter (https://www.amazon.com/GrandStream-HT503-1-FXS-Analog-Telephone/dp/B002H29TGA/ref=pd_bxgy_229_2) Back-to-back these two, and you have a solution. Turn off compression and it should work... but it would require SIP knowledge to configure...
Scottmichaelj Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Here is an AT&T option.... https://www.amazon.com/At-Wireless-Home-Phone-Base/dp/B00B5HLP9C/ref=sr_1_43 Another 'out-there' option.... A GSM to SIP gateway (https://www.amazon.com/Gateway-GOIP-1-Support-Asterisk-Trixbox/dp/B00L11NO5U/ref=sr_1_3) and a FXS/FXO adapter (https://www.amazon.com/GrandStream-HT503-1-FXS-Analog-Telephone/dp/B002H29TGA/ref=pd_bxgy_229_2) Back-to-back these two, and you have a solution. Turn off compression and it should work... but it would require SIP knowledge to configure... SIP is over IP/Internet though so how would you get a call out if your internet was down? I also thought of Google Voice via the ObiHai, again internet. We can even get deep into a discussion about do you get a different company for POTS (if you can find one now) so if your say Xfinity internet goes down the likelihood your phone would too. Then going further down a hole you could say all the phone/internet providers use the same trunks/phone patches so regardless if had Comcast for POTS and CentruyLink for internet you could have the possibility of loosing both lines as well. So I am still circling back around to have the first connection to the central station via internet and then my backup is on cellular. The thing to decide is cost vs benefits. If I am going to pay $10 more to the central monitoring station for a proprietary cell backup it maybe wiser to pay the same or a bit more for a "hotspot" or another device that can act as backup internet and cellular backup for the alarm. If I was "risky" I could even take the hotspot with me on the times I travel, but therefore it would leave my house unprotected for backup. I got an email from ATT that I "MUST" update the device by December. I wonder if they really will cut it off completely. EDIT: Just looked at the SIP device and see that its GSM to SIP so no internet connection needed.
MWareman Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 SIP is over IP/Internet though so how would you get a call out if your internet was down? ... I got an email from ATT that I "MUST" update the device by December. I wonder if they really will cut it off completely. SIP is a protocol. Just like HTTP - it can be used locally as well as across the Internet. I do a *lot* of SIP on my LAN (not involving the Internet at all).... I run Asterisk as a PBX and all my phones are SIP phones. They all still work when the Internet is down - because it's local. The same way the ISY is still accessible thru it's HTTP interface when the Internet is down... Plug a cross-over cable between these two and give them static IPs in the same subnet - and they can talk SIP to each other without needing any other equipment or connectivity - not even a switch. They would be completely isolated just talking to each other for calls. Of course to manage them you'd need to put a switch in the middle. I share that Internet based telephony is a non-starter. I use T-mobile - and I'm told they got a contract with a major private ambulance company that requires them to keep 2G active for a while longer. Not sure though. Michael.
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