How to sense "someone else's" 120V output?

[fennertron]

I have a sleep number bed, and part of the remote is control of bedside lamps.  I would rather move these to Insteon control, while keeping the control via the sleep number remotes also.  My idea is to be able to say "is this outlet on", and let that signal control a scene (or a program) that controls the Insteon lights.

 

The only real idea I've had so far is to have a little power supply plugged into each controlled outlet, that turns on a relay, that can be sensed by an iolinc.  The other idea is to use something like the Smartenit EZIO2x4, and send the output of the power supply (maybe a little USB brick) directly to the inputs.

 

Has anyone done something like this, and/or does anyone have any ideas that I haven't considered, or tradeoffs of the two solutions?

 

Thanks,

  Bill

 

[KeviNH]

The EZIO is certainly the cost-effective way to solve this.  Using a scene would make the response time faster and more reliable than using a program.

[jtara92101]

I can think of a round-about way.

 

But you need to explain more fully the Sleep Number remote.

 

Do they have some dongle you plug into an outlet, and then the Sleep Number remote will turn an outlet on the dongle on and off?

 

If so, does the dongle do dimming also? If it does dimming, my work-around will not work. If it is just on/off, it should work.

 

Insteon inline dimmers have a "sense" feature. They send a small current through the lamp, and can sense when you flip the switch on the lamp. (I think I have seen comments here that this works only for incandescent buibs. However, with Phillips LED bulbs "works for me".

 

It shouldn't matter if it is the switch on the lamp, or the relay in the Sleep Number dongle. (But if the Sleep Number dongle is off, of course the switch on the lamp will do no good.)

 

But it probably needs to be a true relay, rather than a triac.

 

To be more clear: I have a floor lamp in my office. It is plugged into a LampLinc 2457D2. It has a Phillips LED in it, and the floor lamp has a switch. I normally leave the switch "on". I switch it remotely from a KeypadLinc. But if the switch is "off", and the KPL is also "off", if I flip the lamp switch off then back on, the lamp will light. And then the status of the LampLinc is also "on".

 

But you won't be able to turn the light on from Insteon if the Sleep Number relay is off...

 

----

Tangental, but might give you some OTHER ideas. Since you have a Sleep Number bed, have you considered using one or more Insteon magnetic door open/close detectors? Might be cool to have reading light on when in reading position! You might be able to rig it up with double-sided sticky tape. (I HATE double-sided sticky tape, though. You have no idea how long it took to get rid of all the remnants in my new apartment!)

 

When I was in college, I worked as a student assistant writing code for the mainframe operating system. (Michigan Terminal System). There was for a time a persistent problem where the mainframe would halt periodically and the system would have to be rebooted. One of the full time employees at the school (who is now retired from Apple) is an innovative thinker. He rigged-up a sensor to detect the halt light on the console, and a solenoid to press the reboot button.

[fennertron]

But you need to explain more fully the Sleep Number remote.

 

Do they have some dongle you plug into an outlet, and then the Sleep Number remote will turn an outlet on the dongle on and off?

Not quite - there's a big box under the bed that controls motors, etc. and there are outlets on the side of this box for each bedside lamp. They're simple relays, you can hear a quiet click. But there's only one power plug for the whole system.

 

But you won't be able to turn the light on from Insteon if the Sleep Number relay is off...

This is actually my biggest goal: as you walk into the room, turn on the bedside lamps via Insteon.

 

Thanks for the other ideas. I have a ton of stuff on my plate right now - we have new outdoor heaters controlled with 0-10VDC and I'm trying to write some fancy programs with a keylinc-8 to provide a UI...

[jtara92101]

Wait, I think maybe Insteon has a product just for this. I seem to recall a product announcement a while back.

 

A good name for such a product would be "Is This Thing On?"

 

My way above will not work if you plug more than one lamp into the outlet. (I tested it. I have two lamps in my bedroom plugged into one LmapLinc.)

 

Yes. Here it is! SynchroLinc. It's a big ugly box.  But it will be hidden under the bed.

 

http://www.smarthome.com/synchrolinc-insteon-2423a5-power-synching-controller.html?src=Froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQjwjem-BRC_isGJlJ-0h-MBEiQAbCimWGBtcrbFHuGMFqEIs56Ptax1wTMnn4i1YS-Fj0NovkEaAlCM8P8HAQ

 

I don't like the name SynchroLinc. They should change it to "Is This Thing On?"

 

Check to make sure ISY supports it. I see review comments that it's not supported by Insteon Hub II, but they might be old comments.

[fennertron]

Yes. Here it is! SynchroLinc. It's a big ugly box.  But it will be hidden under the bed.

 

http://www.smarthome.com/synchrolinc-insteon-2423a5-power-synching-controller.html?src=Froogle&gclid=Cj0KEQjwjem-BRC_isGJlJ-0h-MBEiQAbCimWGBtcrbFHuGMFqEIs56Ptax1wTMnn4i1YS-Fj0NovkEaAlCM8P8HAQ

I looked at the SynchroLinc when I was doing my research for this. Its job is to sense the power status of the thing that is plugged into it, and send that state as Insteon commands - from that web page,

 

Just plug in any lamp or appliance [...] into SynchroLinc [...] Now when you turn the lamp or appliance On and Off, the linked device(s) also turn On and Off instantly.

It's like your "local control" light, sensing whether or not current is flowing through it to the light, but without any control itself.

 

Since the current cuts off at the *outlet* on the bed controller box, the SynchroLinc wouldn't have a chance to send any "Off" command. And every time I turn the remote on, the SynchroLinc would think that it was recovering from a power outage.

 

Imagine my situation as an outlet controlled by a wall switch, in which you can't change either the outlet or the switch, but I want to sense the state of the switch by plugging something into the outlet.

[MWareman]

The micro modules have a sense wire, which is normally used to sense power when a controlling switch is turned on. You could use this (with no load) to trigger a scene that turns on and off the bedside light. It would need a suitable box to put it in, but would probably be the cleanest result.

[stusviews]

I don't like the name SynchroLinc. They should change it to "Is This Thing On?"

 

The SynchroLinc allows you to synchronize other devices and/or programs based on whether or not a load is at or above a specified level, not just on or off. The other devices/programs are in sych with the load being queried.

 

For example, a TV always draws a (small) load. Otherwise the remote won't work. But when the TV is being watched, the draw is much greater. Using a SynchroLinc allows you to power on a subwoofer when watching and powers it off when not watching. BTW, subwoofers use as much as 10W 24/7 when idling. The SyncroLinc allows you to cut power to the subwoofer completely when it's not being used

[fennertron]

The micro modules have a sense wire, which is normally used to sense power when a controlling switch is turned on. You could use this (with no load) to trigger a scene that turns on and off the bedside light. It would need a suitable box to put it in, but would probably be the cleanest result.

Ah, fascinating.  So I could end up with my own box under the bed, with three plugs: one for power, and one from each of the two bed-controlled outlets to the sense wires; and then, two outlets of my own, the outputs of the micro module.  That's a fascinating idea, and the simplest for sure.  Simple is good.

 

I'll need to use polarized plugs for the sense wire, since we need to sense the hot and ignore the neutral.  If I plug the power supply into an always-on outlet in the bed-control box, then I won't have to worry about any possible phase issues between my hot and the sensed hot - it'll be the same hot.  If I cap off the neutral on these lines, I won't have to worry about a short circuit due to reversing polarity; it just won't detect.

 

I'll talk with my electrician friend before building this box, but I do like the idea.