smokegrub Posted September 29, 2016 Posted September 29, 2016 A few months ago I posted asking help in replacing the switch with a KPL and using the KPL to control the ceiling fan. The fan has 3 speeds; the light is simply On/Off. I am going to have a contractor handle the install, and I am not be going to be at the location. I need to leave him step-by-step instructions on how to handle linking of the FanLinc with an ISY 994i. We will communicate by phone, and I will do the actual linking remotely. I will link using the device number but what does he need to do to put the device into linking mode? There are two set buttons on the device. Do we have to link twice, once for the fan and once for the light? I find the instructions accompanying the device confusing. Previous information I have received here indicates I cannot control the light except by programming its control with the KPL. That's no problem if I can finally get the wiring of both devices correct.
G W Posted September 29, 2016 Posted September 29, 2016 You don't have to put it in linking mode. Just enter it's unique address in. Short and to the point. Best regards, Gary Funk
smokegrub Posted September 29, 2016 Author Posted September 29, 2016 Thanks, Gary. Given that, what purpose do the two set buttons (fan/light) serve when the device is controlled from the ISY?
stusviews Posted September 29, 2016 Posted September 29, 2016 Set buttons on most devices are not needed when creating scenes/link with the ISY. An exception is battery powered devices. It's important the let the installer know that the load (red) wire on the KPL should be capped (i.e., not used). The KPL requires line and neutral only. And ground, for safety, if the box is not metal/grounded.
Teken Posted September 29, 2016 Posted September 29, 2016 It should also be noted that you inform the installer to ensure the fan is set to *High*. You should also ensure the beep and LED's remain on until he tells you all is *Good 2 Go*. Then, you can turn off the beep and LED to ensure light leak isn't seen . . .
smokegrub Posted September 29, 2016 Author Posted September 29, 2016 It should also be noted that you inform the installer to ensure the fan is set to *High*. You should also ensure the beep and LED's remain on until he tells you all is *Good 2 Go*. Then, you can turn off the beep and LED to ensure light leak isn't seen . . . Sorry, I don't understand, "you should ensure the beep and LED's remain on..." Do these come on automatically if the FanLinc is properly connected? How is the beep and LED turned off? I understand "leak" as here used.
stusviews Posted September 29, 2016 Posted September 29, 2016 The Owner's manual explains the beeper. The ISY controls the option.
smokegrub Posted September 29, 2016 Author Posted September 29, 2016 The Owner's manual explains the beeper. The ISY controls the option. Thanks, Stu. The manual might as well been written in "Klingon" as far as I am concerned. : ) You did, however answer my question in that the beep is controllable from the ISY.
Teken Posted September 29, 2016 Posted September 29, 2016 Sorry, I don't understand, "you should ensure the beep and LED's remain on..." Do these come on automatically if the FanLinc is properly connected? How is the beep and LED turned off? I understand "leak" as here used. I don't recall if the beep and LED are on by default when first powered up as its been a long time since I installed one. Regardless, the reason I mention the beep and LED status indicator is that it will assist the installer to visually and aurally to hear the unit is functioning correctly. Obviously, you need to take great care that he is down from the fan before you even attempt to remote control the unit. This may sound funny and odd to say at first blush. But rest assured I have seen and read of a few people getting a fan blade in the face / head!
smokegrub Posted September 29, 2016 Author Posted September 29, 2016 Thanks, Teken. I sure hope I can get this fan managed by the KPL. I would like to turn the fan on from a remote location during the winter when it is extremely cold. The heat is provided by a propane stove and tends to accumulate along the ceiling whereas the plumbing I want to protect is at a lower level. I do not like to leave the fan on except during bitterly cold weather. Everyone's help is sincerely appreciated.
TrojanHorse Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I have 3 fanlincs with kpl's here using the 4 middle buttons for high medium low and off. All good advice here. Others might have better ideas, but I might suggest that you consider running the fan using an ISY program rather than insteon scene linking*. Reason for me was that to my knowledge the FAST ON / FAST OFF commands are inherent to insteon switches. If they can't be disabled, a double click on the off button would turn the fan on high. So a double tap on any linked KPL button would always toggle the fan from high to off. Not ideal, especially for guests so I went with programs instead. The cons I've noticed to this programmatic approach are: 1, a small delay for the fan to respond and 2, in the event of power outage you will need these fanlinc programs to restart the fan. *I still set up a scene so that only a single fan mode is illuminated on the KPL, if that makes sense. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
stusviews Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 TrojanHorse, I agree that double-tapping any Insteon device or button sends a fast on/fast off. But your approach would require all programs and no scenes. Is that what you have? If not, why only for the FanLinc?
TrojanHorse Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 TrojanHorse, I agree that double-tapping any Insteon device or button sends a fast on/fast off. But your approach would require all programs and no scenes. Is that what you have? If not, why only for the FanLinc? Hopefully this doesn't steer too far from the OP. I only do this for the FanLinc. I am using scenes for the previous 3-way switches and for all living room or all outdoor, etc which works well for the lighting (no delay is key here IMHO) I only did this for the FanLinc and KPLs since I have custom buttons that say "fan off" for instance, and I don't want that to turn the fan on high if that button is double tapped. I couldn't accept that nor did I want to explain to my wife or guests for instance that pressing the off button twice would actually turn it on full blast. The programmatic approach seemed to be the only way to prevent that behavior. Similarly, if for example I had a button that was intended to turn off all the lights I would probably do that with a program rather than linking that button to a scene, so that double tapping the "all lights off" button would never do the exact opposite of what I expected. I would have the program turn off the scene probably (rather than have the program turn off individual lights) but I wouldn't link this scene to the keypad. The keypad would instead trigger a program. I wish there was a way to disable the fast on / fast off functionality for a particular switch but I don't believe that's possible so for me this was an acceptable workaround. The half-second delay doesn't bother me when we're talking about the fan speed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Teken Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 For a (OFF) only mode you realize the hardware can send a off only if required, yes?
TrojanHorse Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 For a (OFF) only mode you realize the hardware can send a off only if required, yes? Thanks for the reminder - that will be helpful to keep in mind as I continue to tweak my setup (I believe you're referring to button definitions of toggle-on, toggle-off, always on, always off) But I think the problem I describe would still exist if for example I have a KPL button labeled "Fan low" that's linked via scene to the FanLinc. Let's say I define that button as Always On (that's maybe the best choice referencing page 9 in the manual: http://cache.insteon.com/pdf/2486D.pdf ?), a double-tap on this button would still turn the Fanlinc to "fast" / "high". Is there a way to avoid this without using programs? I'd love to be told that I'm wrong here or missing something since the simple scene setup has its benefits. Now, one could say "just don't double-tap the button", but I think I was also getting unexpected behavior if the button was held rather than quickly pressed. (I can't recall exactly; it's been a year since I made the change from scenes to programs). I really am hoping to be told I'm wrong here, but if not, for me the programs prevent questions like - "you spent how much on this system and the "Fan Low" button sometimes makes it go full speed?
Teken Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) LOL - No, you're correct the double tap will always be present and there is no way to stop it. I was just pointing out for the benefit of others that the hardware natively supports toggle, on, off. With respect to using programs like many here we try to use as many linked scenes as possible. This ensures if a controller is off line or program doesn't execute the *Over All System* will continue to operate for the lay person. Even though a home is a persons castle they should never lose sight of how things should work for the common man. I've been in many small to multi million dollar homes where the person went so over-bored on the use of programs. When disaster struck common switches and appliances were not available for use. Many of this is obviously personal choice but the consumer should never forget things should just work as expected. When things are so complicated or not expected you have lost sight of the whole HA ideology of: It just works! Edited September 30, 2016 by Teken
TrojanHorse Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Thanks Teken. I've read many of your posts here over the past couple years and I agree completely on the use of scenes. The FanLincs might be the sole exception I have at my house. It adds some complication, but (assuming ISY is working...so far so good) it works as expected, regardless of the length or number of button presses. I've enjoyed setting up my Insteon, ISY, ELK etc. and feel that it's a very solid system now. But candidly, this is one spot where Insteon sort of "fell down" for me was when controlling their FanLincs. Especially since Smarthome suggests this combination (and sells packages of custom buttons for this application) but doesn't address this underlying issue. Fast ON / Fast Off (FOFO) to me is a lighting concept and doesn't make as much sense for fans or other devices. In my view, using programs kept me closer to the principle of "works as expected". OT, but the "FOFO" makes me scared to try the garage door IOLinc setup - I'll stick with the Elk relay / soldered transmitter combo. What happens when the door is dimmed or turned Fast OFF? Just kidding, but if Insteon is going to design new devices, I would like to see a way to disable FOFO somehow in the hardware.
Teken Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I would encourage you to offer your thoughts in this *Wish List* thread created by Smartlabs: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list Since you have probably read many of my past rants, raves, and feeback regarding Insteon. They continue to be one of the few companies that have actually taken on user requests for products and features. You never know someone may very well decide to include into the next *Fan Linc* firmware where it ignores the fast on / fast off. They already did this to the ALL ON / ALL OFF so can't see that being a huge issue. But having said this, this option should be a toggle in the *Options* menu because I am sure there are quite a few who could use the fast on / fast off ability.
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