Doug Fraser Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I have a KPL in my bedroom that I use to trigger programs. Specifically Key E is what I call the green key. When it is turned on, the ISY uses it as a condition to run a program that will only allow certain lights to be on for 45 min. I use this for monitoring the switches in my kid's room, downstairs powder room, laundry room etc. These lights seem to never get turned off - except by me. What I have noticed is that periodically, ISY will not understand the state of keys B,C,D,E,F,G,H. When I cycle (push) the key, ISY again understands the state (on or off) and the program is activated as expected. It does seem to always understand the state of the A key however. Note the A key at this point is not used. Any ideas as to how I can fix? Doug Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 How are you looking for the state of these keys? Can you give some detail as to how you use them? These buttons are normally referred to as "secondary buttons" on the keypadlinc (KPL). Normally, you can refer to them in programs and check the status of them in the IF section...to see if they are on or off, but this can be a bit tricky at time depending on what you are doing with them. Perhaps posting your programs would help... Eric I have a KPL in my bedroom that I use to trigger programs. Specifically Key E is what I call the green key. When it is turned on, the ISY uses it as a condition to run a program that will only allow certain lights to be on for 45 min. I use this for monitoring the switches in my kid's room, downstairs powder room, laundry room etc. These lights seem to never get turned off - except by me. What I have noticed is that periodically, ISY will not understand the state of keys B,C,D,E,F,G,H. When I cycle (push) the key, ISY again understands the state (on or off) and the program is activated as expected. It does seem to always understand the state of the A key however. Note the A key at this point is not used. Any ideas as to how I can fix? Doug Link to comment
Doug Fraser Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 I have create a program following the basic instructions as found in this post http://forum.universal-devices.com/view ... t=bathroom Using version I from the above link... I have created a Program folder called Green Button. If Control 'Green Button' is On Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. Note: The green button is KPL button E in my bedroom. The program has if statements that effectively say if "Andrews Bedroom Light is turned on then wait 45 min and then turn it off" I occasionally come home from work and notice that Andrew's Bedroom Light is on and Andrew is not in the house. I then open up an ISY console and check the status of the the bedroom KPL Green Button - this is button E on the KPL. Normally the status will say on or off. However the status is blank - no value is displayed. I check the status of the other KPL buttons on the ISY and all except the A button are blank. I can right click and run query device and the status remains blank. The only way that I can get the ISY to see the KPL status is to physically push the key on the ISY. Then the ISY correctly reflects the state of the button (on or off). When this is done my Green program works correctly. This continues for about a week. Then the cycle repeats. Regards, Doug Link to comment
MikeB Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The status of KeypadLinc secondary buttons are not queryable. The only way the ISY knows the status of these buttons is if they are pressed (or controlled from the ISY via a scene). Once this happens, the ISY 'remembers' the status of they button and tracks all future status changes. If the ISY was rebooted, for example, the status of all KeypadLinc secondaries would be blank until something turns them on or off. Are you rebooting your ISY for some reason? Link to comment
gregoryx Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 "not queryable"? Just not possible in the devices? Link to comment
Sub-Routine Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 "not queryable"? Just not possible in the devices? Correct. A query will only return the status of the load, button A. Keep in mind that KPL buttons can be set to non-toggle so they are always off or on. That doesn't mean the associated devices are always off or on. Mutually exclusive buttons turn one button on and all other buttons in the MX group off. This does not send off commands either. Then again, a ControLinc or a RemoteLinc do not keep track of button statuses either. And Motion sensors, I/OLincs, etc... Personally, I think it was a mistake to use backlights to indicate statuses on KPL buttons because it is so easy to be incorrect unless only one device is linked to each button. As MikeB stated the ISY keeps track of the last known press of any of these buttons. There should be a reason if it is forgetting. Power cycle or a bug. What version ISY and firmware are you using Doug? Perhaps it would be better to reverse the logic and have your son push a button when he comes home and have that reset every night at bedtime. Laundry room, garage, etc. could use motion sensors but bedrooms are off limits to timers here (and the kitchen and dining room, thanks to X-10). Then I am old school and just threatened a beating when the kids left lights on Rand Link to comment
Doug Fraser Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thank you for the responses. I am running 2.6.13. The problem could very well be due to power cycling (actually power outage from the utility). It sounds like the ISY does not retain state info through a power cycle. Is there any chance of having the ISY write state info to non volatile memory the ISY? So what are my options? - I suppose that a small UPS for the ISY could help the situation - Is there any any other ideas? Having my son push the button will not work. regards, Doug Link to comment
MikeB Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 - I suppose that a small UPS for the ISY could help the situation That's an option. If you have an ISY-99, you would need to purchase a separate AC adapter to power the ISY (plugged into the UPS). You would need to keep the PLM on an outlet (do not plug it into a UPS). You might need a FilterLinc if the UPS will be plugged into an outlet next to the PLM as UPSs are known to sometimes cause communication issues. Link to comment
Sub-Routine Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thank you for the responses. ... - I suppose that a small UPS for the ISY could help the situation - Is there any any other ideas? Having my son push the button will not work. regards, Doug Kids are smart, they learn quickly. Rand Link to comment
Doug Fraser Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 One of the main reasons for this adventure into lighting automation is to help save energy. The problem was my kids were leaving lights on. I just got home form a biz trip to find 9 separate lights on. Several of these should have been automatically turned off by the ISY after 45 min. I checked the state of the KPL Green Button in the ISY (under current state) and it is blank. I called my wife at work and she confirms that the power did go off several times while I was gone. Thank-you Michael for configuration info on the UPS. I have an ISY 26 with a separate power supply. I understand to connect the PLM on a regular (non UPS) outlet. Are there any known issues (related to this problem) with the PLM when it experiences a power cycle? Is there any way, in future releases, that the ISY can write values to non volatile memory so the states of KPL's survive a power cycle? Regards, Doug Link to comment
Algorithm Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Is there any way, in future releases, that the ISY can write values to non volatile memory so the states of KPL's survive a power cycle? Hi Doug, I like that idea! For now, though, the following workaround might help: Scene: sbGreen KPLg as responder Program: Green Status If Status 'KPLg' is not Off Then Set Program 'Green Startup On' To Run At Startup Set Program 'Green Startup Off' To Not Run At Startup Else Set Program 'Green Startup Off' To Run At Startup Set Program 'Green Startup On' To Not Run At Startup Program: Green Startup On If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set Scene 'sbGreen' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Program: Green Startup Off If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set Scene 'sbGreen' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Link to comment
Sub-Routine Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Darrell, you make me proud Rand Link to comment
Doug Fraser Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Yes that is cool! I will give it a try Doug Link to comment
Algorithm Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Darrell, you make me proud Rand Thanks, Rand! Link to comment
CJVann Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I have two buttons (lets call them B & C) that are mutually exclusive. If button B is on, and I turn on button C, then button B turns off as expected. As said above, ISY now thinks BOTH buttons are On because no "Off" was received. I know it was said above that secondary buttons cannot be querried, but I found that if I querry button "A", then ISY updates the status of buttons B & C, and now it knows B is off. Is there a way this could be updated automatically, or maybe since the ISY knows which buttons are mutally exclusive, it could change the state of the other buttons to "Off" when a mutually exclusive button is pressed "On"? I also would like to see the state of keypad buttons remembered on power failure. The power CONSTANTLY goes out here. Link to comment
Algorithm Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I have two buttons (lets call them B & C) that are mutually exclusive. If button B is on, and I turn on button C, then button B turns off as expected. As said above, ISY now thinks BOTH buttons are On because no "Off" was received. I know it was said above that secondary buttons cannot be querried, but I found that if I querry button "A", then ISY updates the status of buttons B & C, and now it knows B is off. Is there a way this could be updated automatically, or maybe since the ISY knows which buttons are mutally exclusive, it could change the state of the other buttons to "Off" when a mutually exclusive button is pressed "On"? I also would like to see the state of keypad buttons remembered on power failure. The power CONSTANTLY goes out here. Hi CJ, Your idea of having ISY track mutually exclusive button presses is interesting. I'm not sure how difficult it would be, but you could post it in the Product Requests forum. Yes, with version 2.7.0 ISY does get the status of secondary buttons when the main button is queried, as you observed. Do you mean that you would like ISY to remember KPL buttons states through a power failure? ISY does query the network when it reboots (now including secondary buttons), so it should find the current true state of the buttons after a power failure. Link to comment
CJVann Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Do you mean that you would like ISY to remember KPL buttons states through a power failure? ISY does query the network when it reboots (now including secondary buttons), so it should find the current true state of the buttons after a power failure. Yes, I had read (further up) that the state of the keypad buttons would not be known following a power failure, and I was concerned about HomeSeer/ISY programs doing unexpected things when the power came back on if it didn't know the state of keypad buttons. Can't you just see "Sleep Mode" turning into "Party Mode" at 3AM when the lights blink off?? Sounds like you've already found the solution now that ISY queries keypad buttons on power up. Thanks! Link to comment
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