Motion Activated Scene Keeps Resetting Lights

[DAlter01]

I am trying to set up day and evening lighting scenes that are triggered on and stay on based on motion.  When there is no motion for a couple hours the scenes should then go off.  That is easy enough to accomplish except that when I manually change the lighting level within that motion controlled scene it keeps getting reset by the ISY to the programmed light level whenever motion is detected.

 

My objective is that when I happen to do a manual change to the light level (after a motion on event) I want the light level to stay at that manual level until the no motion time out event.  The scenes each have 25+ lights so putting in code to check each device for a "dim" level would be cumbersome.  I'm not creative enough to figure out how to do this through programming.  Is there a way?

 

One idea I had was to put in a dummy switchlinc that gets turned on via program by the motion detectors with that program having a timer to turn off the switchlinc when there wasn't motion for x hours.  Then, I would use that switchlinc to be the control in a program to turn on and off the lights when that switchlinc comes on and off.  This way, I don't think my manual changes to the light levels would be changed by the program.  But, to do this, I think I have to put in multiple switchlincs to handle the transition from day scene to evening scene in order to obtain a new control on event for the evening scene.  If I try it with just one switchlinc I don't see where I create the new on event to trigger the evening scene.

 

I figure you guys may have addressed this before.....thoughts?

[stusviews]

You'll need to use a program for the Motion Sensor. A scene won't work because you can't disable a scene. Also, you need to have a way to enable the MS program, perhaps with a Fast Off.

 

If
        Control 'Scene Controller' is switched Bright
     Or Control 'Scene Controller' is switched Dim
 
Then
        Disable Program 'Motion Sensor'
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

[DAlter01]

Does "switched bright" or "switched dim" compare the current setting of the device to the scene generated setting of the device to allow me to determine if one or more of the devices on the scene has been manually adjusted? 

[stusviews]

Yes, dimmed or brightened from is current setting. The current setting is not actually known, only that the brightness changed. You'd need to include every scene controller in the If statement using OR. There's an easier method if and only if the MS brightness setting is less than any other setting you want to use manually and your current wiring permits.

[oberkc]

I have noticed that some of the insteon devices have a "resume dim" feature. I do not know which switches you have or whether they have such a feature, but I could imagine that enabling this feature could solve your problem.

 

Unfortunately, I have not done much experimenting with this, so I cannot offer a lot of help here.

[DAlter01]

Thanks all, lots of programming options it seems once one understands what the different programmer words actually do.  In reading through the manual I couldn't find that kind of detail/explanation.  Did I miss it in the manual or is it mostly a trial and error process to learn how the different program words work within the program?

[oberkc]

I dont know what you have seenor missed. There are quick start guides, user manuals, the wiki, and videos.

[DAlter01]

oberkc, oh, I didn't realize I could refer to a quickstart guide to program my ISY.  That would make things sooo much easier.

 

I have spent many hours studying the sources you mentioned and have had a 140+ device install for many years that I previously programmed in Houselinc.  Now that I am converting it to ISY I've put in my time relearing the new programming system.  In doing that work and putting in those hours I still have not uncovered what I believe to be a comprehensive source for determining what the function of the isy programming words are or where they can be used.  Granted I can search around on the forum for explanations and pose questions.  That, unfortunately, requires a huge investment of time not just on my part but on those forum readers that have already been down the road and learned similarly.   I don't seen anything in the ISY User's guide or their website that I would call anything near comprehensive.  

 

For instance, just the word "status".  One might think "status" is just a query to determine current state.  It is a passive word and taken alone does not imply that within the program the word can initiate action like the word Control.  But, it turns out that "status" is actually a word that exhibits control but only when there has been a change of state.  Otherwise, it is a passive command that can be queried to see what the current status of the device is to see if it meets a condition.  Such a distinction is immensely powerful when programming.  I certainly didn't find that in a quickstart guide, the users manual, etc.  I could point to several more similar instances of functionality where the programming word such as "status", "control" etc. requires more than one word of explanation as to what the word can do within a program. 

 

Maybe there is more comprehensive material out there but I haven't seen it within the quickstart guide, the user guide, the many, many wiki pages I've read through, etc.  The forum has provided a lot of color in to what the programming words can do but with going that route it is hard to figure out what I'm missing.

[oberkc]

Yes, i understand your points. Unfortunately, those sources I mentioned are, in response to your earlier question, all that I know. I dont even remember where I learned most of my ISY programming skills, but i suspect it was a ombintion of all those resources you mentioned. I also assume that the amount of activity on the forums is an indicator that others also find them less-than-comprehensive. Just as likely is that many dont bother to read them at all, so I applaud your hours spent studying this stuff.

 

I find the big thing is to realize that each program condition is also the program trigger. I find the conditions and actions, themselves, to be relatively intuitive. It is in the understanding of what triggers a condition to be evaluated that took a bit of practice.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt that this is much help for you.

[DAlter01]

Good point, I hadn't made the leap yet that each condition is also a trigger....something to learn every day.  I'll have to think about that as I'm writing the code.  Thanks... I'll stand by waiting for more nuggets

[oberkc]

The trigger part confuses most of us, I suspect. For example, i offer the following program...

 

If

Time is from sunset

To sunrise (next day)

Then

Turn on a light

Else

Turn off a light

 

Many would assume that such a program is in a continuous evaluation mode and would force a light to stay on at night and off during the day. Should the light be manually turned off during hours of darkness, they believe this program would automatically turn it back on.

 

In truth, this particular condition has two triggers: sunset and sunrise. It is only at these two trigger points each day that this program would run. The rest of the time, this program sits idle.

 

Each statement in a condition could be a trigger. A program will run when one or more individual triggers is met. once triggered, the entire condition is evaluated, either ligically true or false.

 

There are some other subtleties, but this is the big one. Looking over the manual and wiki again, I agree that this could be made more clear.

[oberkc]

As an aside, i also find it interesting that relatively few questions on this forum are related to programming issues anymore. Just looking at the active topics of the last couple of days (about 20), this may be the only one.

 

I am not sure what one can conclude from this, but it is at least interesting to me.

[stusviews]

The trigger part confuses most of us, I suspect. For example, i offer the following program...

 

If

Time is from sunset

To sunrise (next day)

Then

Turn on a light

Else

Turn off a light

 

Many would assume that such a program is in a continuous evaluation mode and would force a light to stay on at night and off during the day. Should the light be manually turned off during hours of darkness, they believe this program would automatically turn it back on.

 

In truth, this particular condition has two triggers: sunset and sunrise. It is only at these two trigger points each day that this program would run. The rest of the time, this program sits idle.

 

Each statement in a condition could be a trigger. A program will run when one or more individual triggers is met. once triggered, the entire condition is evaluated, either ligically true or false.

 

There are some other subtleties, but this is the big one. Looking over the manual and wiki again, I agree that this could be made more clear.

 

ISY programs are event drive. If no event occurs that the program addresses, then the program won't run. A second program can accomplish what you want:

 

If

Time is from sunset

To sunrise (next day)

and light is turned off

Then

Turn on a light

Else

nothing

 

The added line creates an event if the light is switched off. Note that you need both programs, the second program runs only if the light is turned off during the scheduled time.