mmoore99 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I am attempting to add a SwitchLinc 2477D to the ISY, but am getting a "Cannot Determine Insteon Engine" error message. I have done factory resets on the device, but the problem still persists. The event log when attempting to add the device is shown below. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:01 AM : [ Time] 11:46:02 107(0) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:25 AM : [42 E9 A2 ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:25 AM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 42 E9 A2 0F 0D 00 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:25 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:26 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 3D.E9.A2 34.E7.6D AB 0D FF (FF) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:26 AM : [Std-Direct Nack] 3D.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:26 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 42 E9 A2 0F 0D 00 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 3D.E9.A2 34.E7.6D AB 0D FF (FF) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [Std-Direct Nack] 3D.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 42.E9.A2 34.E7.6D A3 0D FF (FF) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [Std-Direct Nack] 42.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 42 E9 A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:37 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E9.A2 34.E7.6D 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:37 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 10.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:37 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:45 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 42 E9 A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:45 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:46 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E9.A2 34.E7.6D 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:46 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 10.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:46 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:55 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 42 E9 A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:55 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:56 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 10.08.AA 34.E7.6D 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:56 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 10.08.AA-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:56 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:47:00 AM : [42 E9 A2 0 ] Failed to add device, reason 3 Sat 07/15/2017 11:47:00 AM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices Sat 07/15/2017 11:47:01 AM : [ Time] 11:47:02 107(0) Sat 07/15/2017 11:48:00 AM : [ Time] 11:48:02 107(0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I am attempting to add a SwitchLinc 2477D to the ISY, but am getting a "Cannot Determine Insteon Engine" error message. I have done factory resets on the device, but the problem still persists. The event log when attempting to add the device is shown below. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:01 AM : [ Time] 11:46:02 107(0) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:25 AM : [42 E9 A2 ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:25 AM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 42 E9 A2 0F 0D 00 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:25 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:26 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 3D.E9.A2 34.E7.6D AB 0D FF (FF) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:26 AM : [Std-Direct Nack] 3D.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:26 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 42 E9 A2 0F 0D 00 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 3D.E9.A2 34.E7.6D AB 0D FF (FF) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [Std-Direct Nack] 3D.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 42.E9.A2 34.E7.6D A3 0D FF (FF) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [Std-Direct Nack] 42.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 42 E9 A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:35 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:37 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E9.A2 34.E7.6D 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:37 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 10.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:37 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:45 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 42 E9 A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:45 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:46 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E9.A2 34.E7.6D 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:46 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 10.E9.A2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:46 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:55 AM : [INST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 42 E9 A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:55 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 42.E9.A2 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:56 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 10.08.AA 34.E7.6D 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01) Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:56 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 10.08.AA-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 07/15/2017 11:46:56 AM : [INST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Sat 07/15/2017 11:47:00 AM : [42 E9 A2 0 ] Failed to add device, reason 3 Sat 07/15/2017 11:47:00 AM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices Sat 07/15/2017 11:47:01 AM : [ Time] 11:47:02 107(0) Sat 07/15/2017 11:48:00 AM : [ Time] 11:48:02 107(0) This error message usually indicates a communication problem between the PLM and the Device. You can try plugging the PM into a extension cord and try a different outlet You could also have noise on the powertline caused by a wall wart, a UPS, a TV, a computer power supply, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw01 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 This error get's SO OLD. I have the device plugged in 5 feet from the PLM, a dual band 8 button keypad version 7.7, an access point 2' away.Yeah I moved it to the PLM outlet and it added fine, but this flakey insteon protocol can drive you to drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Which version of firmware and UI are you running? Have you tried to factory reset the KPL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 This error get's SO OLD. I have the device plugged in 5 feet from the PLM, a dual band 8 button keypad version 7.7, an access point 2' away. Yeah I moved it to the PLM outlet and it added fine, but this flakey insteon protocol can drive you to drink. You most likely have something on the same circuit as the KPL that's interfering with the Insteon signal. Take a look at this trouble shooting worksheet http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw01 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Which version of firmware and UI are you running? Have you tried to factory reset the KPL? On the latest stable, upgraded in order to keep my weather functioning properly with the UID being transmitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw01 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 You most likely have something on the same circuit as the KPL that's interfering with the Insteon signal. Take a look at this trouble shooting worksheet http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors Hard to say, an access point plugged into the same outlet 5' from the PLM shoudl resolve that! There is another access point across the room, and another on the other side of the wall. Be nice if we had real testing tools for this stuff instead of nothing. I may get out my ELK signal meter and plug in another keypad to see what's up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwester Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Hard to say, an access point plugged into the same outlet 5' from the PLM shoudl resolve that! There is another access point across the room, and another on the other side of the wall... Not necessarily. Alas, the RF feature of the newer insteon devices seems to be tied closely into the power-line circuitry, and there have been numerous reports of power-line interference preventing the RF from working. I've seen this happen with a 2477 switchlinc -- which certainly has the RF circuitry -- going completely deaf when turned on. It turns out that a 25-watt-equivalent LED bulb that it switched had suddenly gone bad, although the bulb continued to light (in fact, just as bright as its twin on the other side of the garage door). (And yes, something to test this with would be marvelous -- and since Not-So-Smarthome could charge a premium for such a device and would sell one to almost every user (since pretty much every user encounters some sort of trouble with Insteon at some point), it's incomprehensible why they don't have such a device... except perhaps they no longer have any engineers who understand this stuff on-staff anymore (which would explain a lot more than just the absence of this diagnostic device).) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Hard to say, an access point plugged into the same outlet 5' from the PLM shoudl resolve that! There is another access point across the room, and another on the other side of the wall. Be nice if we had real testing tools for this stuff instead of nothing. I may get out my ELK signal meter and plug in another keypad to see what's up. Make sure your access points are on opposite legs of your powerline. Run the 4 tap test to verify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 If your Access Points are hardware 2.0 or higher. Make sure they are working. LED ON and tap test between them works. The Access Points V2.0 and above. They are on the same main 2413 PLM board and suffer the same power supply issues. I had a pair go south. LED dim and strange Insteon happenings. Did the new capacitor fix and all is back to OK now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvgossman Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I feel compelled to help even though no one could possibly be as stupid as me. But you never know. I encountered the same thing with a couple 2477D's that just arrived. Both produce the "Cannot Determine Insteon Engine". I drove myself to madness moving the ISY, disconnecting potential interference targets, changing the hot wire. I could still communicate with its neighbor in the 3-gang box but an older version SwitchLinc. I updated the ISY Firmware, the UI, and nothing helped. I then took a third 2477D and connected it directly to an outlet and it worked fine so that ruled out the controlling software though left interference as a potential. Then it hit me. I went to take a photo of one of the troublesome 2477Ds to confirm the ID # and I found the problem. Could it be this simple, is it possible others have done this? See photo. I entered 4A.89.97. Upon magnified inspection I noticed that was a funny looking "8" - is it possible that it's really a zero "0" with a dot in the center to differentiate it from the letter O in the font they used? I confirmed that this is in fact what had happened - the "8" has a continuous bar in the center. I entered 4A.09.97 and it works fine. And both of the "bad" switches had that "0". For God's sake Insteon, there's no "O" in an hexadecimal number - make it a normal appearing zero. I'm curious if anyone else has done this same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 That is actually a standard zero in "computer speak." You did the intelligent thing by magnifying the image. B and 8 often get confused, too. And, yes, many users have been confused, even those as smart as you. Congratulate yourself, you did, after all, find the problem and the solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 You are not alone in misreading the Insteon ID. I have had troubles with numbers getting misread and seen other also having issues. The older ones where even worse. Poor stock and printing. Some times smudged. I believe the later ones are now laser printed on a better stock. Glue on old ones use to dry out and fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvgossman Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Ah yes, I've fallen prey to the 8 vs. B too. But this "0" with the dot, while standard in some computer displays, isn't done very well until you see the 8 next to the 0 and get to know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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