dbuss Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 I need some help wiring new switches in the following 3-way circuit. Switch 1 is connected to line with the black wire. The switch also has a white and red wires from the same cable as the black wire connected to it. Here's the wires in the switch 2 box where they are connected. Cable 1 Black - switch Red - Line Bundle White Neutral bundle Cable 2 Red - Switch White - switch Black - Line Bundle Thank you.
stusviews Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 Not possible if those are the only wires in each box. That is, it is possible to have only these wires, but then the labels you assigned are incorrect. Describe all the wires in each box and especially what color is conected to the black scrwe at each box and what's connected to the brass screws. You can disregard any ground wires.
dbuss Posted October 8, 2017 Author Posted October 8, 2017 Switch 1 box has one cable running into it with red, black and white wires. All three wires are connected to the switch. The black wire is connected to the black screw. The switch 2 box has two cables coming into it. Each cable has red, black and white wires. On one cable, the black goes to the black crew on the switch. Red goes to line bundle and white goes to neutral bundle. The red and black cables on the second cable are attached to the switch and the black goes to the line bundle. Thanks Stu!! Not possible if those are the only wires in each box. That is, it is possible to have only these wires, but then the labels you assigned are incorrect. Describe all the wires in each box and especially what color is conected to the black scrwe at each box and what's connected to the brass screws. You can disregard any ground wires
Scottmichaelj Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Switch 1 box has... Maybe take pix of both boxes and wires? Could help us, help you more too.
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 Maybe take pix of both boxes and wires? Could help us, help you more too.This is the switch that has the line connection. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk Maybe take pix of both boxes and wires? Could help us, help you more too.This is the other switch. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 Maybe take pix of both boxes and wires? Could help us, help you more too.This is the box where the line connection is made to the switch. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk Do you have a volt meter?Yes. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 Do you have a volt meter?I disconnected all the wires from the two switches and the only one that had power was that black wire as indicated. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 Maybe take pix of both boxes and wires? Could help us, help you more too.This is the other box. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Scottmichaelj Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 This is the box where the line connection is made to the switch. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk Yes. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk One of the red or black (most of the time black) is your 120v line - and red is the load. Do you not have a bundle of white wires connected behind the other switch in that box? White are normally the neutrals. In this case seeing it on one switch is most likely the “traveler”. (You can use any color, but most of the time its another black wire) Also know you will be capping the traveler as it is not needed with Insteon. Mark the wires with 120v with tape. Then the other is the load. On a three way Insteon its just white/neutrals, each switch will need the “line” (for power) and one switch will use the red that will go to the “load” /light. The other side will get capped off.
Scottmichaelj Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 I am not able to call tonight but if you want and “can” (and cant figure it out) I will PM you my phone number and walk you through it tomorrow on the phone. Its easier to explain. The pic of the insteon switch looks correct. Does it work as expected? On/off?
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 One of the red or black (most of the time black) is your 120v line - and red is the load. Do you not have a bundle of white wires connected behind the other switch in that box? White are normally the neutrals. In this case seeing it on one switch is most likely the “traveler”. (You can use any color, but most of the time its another black wire) Also know you will be capping the traveler as it is not needed with Insteon. Mark the wires with 120v with tape. Then the other is the load. On a three way Insteon its just white/neutrals, each switch will need the “line” (for power) and one switch will use the red that will go to the “load” /light. The other side will get capped off. The black is the 120 volt line in this box. This box has three 3-way switches that are all connected the same way. Three cables come into the box. Each with a black, re, and white wire connected to a switch. It seems to me that the black line wire in this box is the same black wire below. Cable 2 Red - Switch White - switch Black - Line Bundle
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 I am not able to call tonight but if you want and “can” (and cant figure it out) I will PM you my phone number and walk you through it tomorrow on the phone. Its easier to explain. The pic of the insteon switch looks correct. Does it work as expected? On/off? The Insteon switch that you see is for another light and it does work fine. It's not in a 3-way circuit. It get's its line power from same line bundle as described above.
Scottmichaelj Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 The black is the 120 volt line in this box. This box has three 3-way switches that are all connected the same way. Three cables come into the box. Each with a black, re, and white wire connected to a switch. It seems to me that the black line wire in this box is the same black wire below. Cable 2 Red - Switch White - switch Black - Line Bundle At the end of the day as long as the switch has power doesnt matter. If you remove the black wire on one side do you lose power on the other?
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 At the end of the day as long as the switch has power doesnt matter. If you remove the black wire on one side do you lose power on the other? I did not try that. But I could.
Scottmichaelj Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) I did not try that. But I could.You need to know if one of the “lines” (black wires) powers the other box or not. Also if you remove the red wire what side disconnects to the load? Edited October 9, 2017 by Scottmichaelj
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 You need to know if one of the “lines” (black wires) powers the other box or not. Also if you remove the red wire what side disconnects to the load? I wired the switches again. When both switches are off the black wire on the switch in the first picture has power just as indicated. The white wire on the other switch has power with both switches off.
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 You need to know if one of the “lines” (black wires) powers the other box or not. Also if you remove the red wire what side disconnects to the load? If I remove the red wire form the switch in the first picture that has line wire being black, I cannot turn the light on. However, I can turn the light on with the other switch.
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 You need to know if one of the “lines” (black wires) powers the other box or not. Also if you remove the red wire what side disconnects to the load? If I re-attach the red wire just disconnected and then disconnect the red wire on the other switch, I can turn the light on off with the switch I just disconnected the red from. But not the other switch. I think this is to be expected.
stusviews Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 First and foremost, for safety's sake, be aware that for any 3-way switch configuration, a white wire connected to the switch is never, ever a neutral wire. Any color can be line, even the white wire. Each 3-way switch has three connections (that's why they're called 3-way). One end of the configuration connects to the line (black screw) and the other end connects to the load (also a black screw), The other two (brass) screws at each end are travelers. From the first set of images with the box that has only three wires, it appears that a black wire is either line or load. You don't show which wire connected to the black screw at the other end. Most common, at the switch box with three and only three wires, the black is line and load is at the other end. If you can determine that, then connect all the white wires together to provide a neutral at both boxes. Connect what you know is line at the box with multiple wires to the black wire from/to the other switch box (the one with only three wires) and to the Insteon switch (and anything else that was/is connected to line-if it's the same circuit). The box with multiple wires also seems to have the load wire. Connect that to the load wire on the Insteon switch. Cap the other red wires. If the switch controls the load, the you're more than 99/100 there Wire the second switch to neutral and line. Create a scene with both switches as controllers. Check and close up the boxes. 1
dbuss Posted October 9, 2017 Author Posted October 9, 2017 First and foremost, for safety's sake, be aware that for any 3-way switch configuration, a white wire connected to the switch is never, ever a neutral wire. Any color can be line, even the white wire. Each 3-way switch has three connections (that's why they're called 3-way). One end of the configuration connects to the line (black screw) and the other end connects to the load (also a black screw), The other two (brass) screws at each end are travelers. From the first set of images with the box that has only three wires, it appears that a black wire is either line or load. You don't show which wire connected to the black screw at the other end. Most common, at the switch box with three and only three wires, the black is line and load is at the other end. If you can determine that, then connect all the white wires together to provide a neutral at both boxes. Connect what you know is line at the box with multiple wires to the black wire from/to the other switch box (the one with only three wires) and to the Insteon switch (and anything else that was/is connected to line-if it's the same circuit). The box with multiple wires also seems to have the load wire. Connect that to the load wire on the Insteon switch. Cap the other red wires. If the switch controls the load, the you're more than 99/100 there Wire the second switch to neutral and line. Create a scene with both switches as controllers. Check and close up the boxes. Stu, I appreciate your assistance as always. I have determined that the black wire in the box with three wires is connected to the line and is connected to the black screw. That would make the white and red wires travelers. To get a neutral in the box with three wires I will connect the white traveler wire to the neutral bundle in the other box. Is this correct? Update: Task successfully completed. Thanks Stu and Scott for your assistance. It's greatly appreciated!! Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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