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Problems with New Leak Sensors


f.demello

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Hello - I added 2 new leak sensors in the last few months (Named Water Treatment & 2nd Fl AC (Back). Adding them worked fine but they don't work. All others worked fine except these two new sensors. Placing them in water does not trigger any alerts. I have checked & re-checked the programs. I have changed the batteries numerous times. I just updated the ISY/Admin Console to 4.7.3 and since then none of my sensors have any dates in the current status. Prior to this all sensors were fine except these 2 new ones which did not have an On in the Heartbeat status.  I also attached an error log.

 

Any troubleshooting ideas will be appreciated

ISY_Error_Log_v4.7.3__Fri_2018_12.28_10_22.00_AM.txt

Universal Devices Administrative Console 2018-12-28 10-20-18.jpg

Universal Devices Administrative Console 2018-12-28 10-20-34.jpg

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I'm not sure about the new ones. For the "since then none of my sensors have any dates in the current status" problem, that's expected.  Updating the ISY's firmware caused a reboot. There is no status for wireless devices after a reboot until they send a message. For most sensors that's:

  • When they trigger for their purpose (water detected, door opened, motion sensed) or..
  • 1 heartbeat every 24 hours based on when the battery was last put in them
  • Motion sensors don't send a heartbeat, but they do send a dusk and dawn message, depending how they are able to see

Paul

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4 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Did you reset them them after water sensing by tapping the button? What status does your Admin Console device page show for the Wet status?

Hi Larry - it doesn't trigger when I place in water. I have hit the button once and tried again with no luck. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Prior to the ISY update (now every state is blank) Heartbeat/Dry were blank for the 2 new sensors. 

 

Thank you

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6 minutes ago, paulbates said:

I'm not sure about the new ones. For the "since then none of my sensors have any dates in the current status" problem, that's expected.  Updating the ISY's firmware caused a reboot. There is no status for wireless devices after a reboot until they send a message. For most sensors that's:

  • When they trigger for their purpose (water detected, door opened, motion sensed) or..
  • 1 heartbeat every 24 hours based on when the battery was last put in them
  • Motion sensors don't send a heartbeat, but they do send a dusk and dawn message, depending how they are able to see

Paul

Understood Paul.  Prior to this ISY update the 2 new sensors had a blank status for Heartbeat & Dry (although these have been in place for months)

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1 hour ago, f.demello said:

Understood Paul.  Prior to this ISY update the 2 new sensors had a blank status for Heartbeat & Dry (although these have been in place for months)

What about placement? Sometimes places that need leak sensing are remote or blocked from an rf perspective. Are they somewhere that can reach a dualband device / PLM? Have you tried temporarily moving them close to a dual band device and leaving them there at lease a day? 

Paul

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2 hours ago, f.demello said:

Hi Larry - it doesn't trigger when I place in water. I have hit the button once and tried again with no luck. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Prior to the ISY update (now every state is blank) Heartbeat/Dry were blank for the 2 new sensors. 

 

Thank you

If you got them into more than about 3/32" of water the electronics may be wet and either not functioning or burned out. Did they work when new? Was there a plastic battery isolation strip that you had to pull out, partially indicating they were not sent back from another user after damaging them?


If you open the case on  newer units  the lid may have damaged them (see photo). The new design of the PCB at the one end places a (crystal) component into the lid space which has forced a lid modification, and also when you open the case the end of the lid plastic tab catches a coil component and fractures the component's core, rendering the LD useless.

2047970625_LeakDetectorRev2.6.thumb.jpg.2dd0df20e084977a16a093a9fde2cd2b.jpg

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3 hours ago, larryllix said:

If you got them into more than about 3/32" of water the electronics may be wet and either not functioning or burned out. Did they work when new? Was there a plastic battery isolation strip that you had to pull out, partially indicating they were not sent back from another user after damaging them?

 

Hi Larry - They never worked out of the box. I only just touch the metal contacts to surface water normally to test so I doubt if there is water damage

I believe they are this new design and will open it up and check.

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11 minutes ago, f.demello said:

Hi Larry - They never worked out of the box. I only just touch the metal contacts to surface water normally to test so I doubt if there is water damage

I believe they are this new design and will open it up and check.

You should be able to tell by the case bulge on the bottom that will not go flat. Make sure when you open the case and it only hinges on the long side and not from the short side when you first swing it open. If the short end opens first the other end will catch that coil and tend to break it.

Your test water wasn't distilled or RO was it? Water is an insulator by nature and will not conduct. The "dirt" in water makes it conduct.

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On 12/28/2018 at 4:55 PM, f.demello said:

Hi Larry - They never worked out of the box. I only just touch the metal contacts to surface water normally to test so I doubt if there is water damage

I believe they are this new design and will open it up and check.

1 is the new style and the other is older. New style does not appear damaged

Old.jpg

New.jpg

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28 minutes ago, f.demello said:

Hello - what is the best way to do this?

  1. Using a small flat blade screwdriver, carefully open the bottom case of Leak Sensor
  2. Pull out the battery
  3. Wait 5 seconds
  4. Push in Set button and hold it. Do not let go.
  5. Reinstall the battery while holding down the Set button LED will turn on solid Green for a few seconds LED will then turn off
  6. Release Set button
  • If they are still installed on the ISY:
    • From the Admin Console, right-click on the sensor
    • Pick "Restore Device" from the menu
       
  • If they are not still installed, try re-installing

Paul

 

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1 minute ago, f.demello said:

Thanks Paul. I will give that a try. If not installed after the reset do I have to re-do the entire programming?  Thank you

Correct. But I believe it is installed based on your first post. I wasn't sure if you had removed it from the ISY.. either clicking on the device and deleting it, or right-clicking and picking delete. If you still see the device in the Admin Console "Main" device tree, you can use "Restore Device"

Remember it could take a while for the heartbeat node to show anything. I've not used the leak sensor, so I don't know if it turns that on right way on power up or not. After restoring device with no errors, you can pull the battery a few times and see if your heartbeat program responds.

Paul

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I have 15 of these things myself, some old and some new (like yours, V.41 through V.44).  One of the newer sensors shipped with a weak battery, so I went through a similar process with it.  It's unlikely that you have two with bad batteries, but it's a simple test.  I believe it takes over 24 hours for a heartbeat to show up.

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11 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I have 15 of these things myself, some old and some new (like yours, V.41 through V.44).  One of the newer sensors shipped with a weak battery, so I went through a similar process with it.  It's unlikely that you have two with bad batteries, but it's a simple test.  I believe it takes over 24 hours for a heartbeat to show up.

Hello - I have replaced the batteries with new Energizers.

 

58 minutes ago, paulbates said:
  1. Using a small flat blade screwdriver, carefully open the bottom case of Leak Sensor
  2. Pull out the battery
  3. Wait 5 seconds
  4. Push in Set button and hold it. Do not let go.
  5. Reinstall the battery while holding down the Set button LED will turn on solid Green for a few seconds LED will then turn off
  6. Release Set button
  • If they are still installed on the ISY:
    • From the Admin Console, right-click on the sensor
    • Pick "Restore Device" from the menu
       
  • If they are not still installed, try re-installing

Paul

 

I did this for one of them Paul. Seems to have worked in that it is still listed. Not sure how to test to be sure.

I am noticing a few of my leak sensors do not have Running Then for Variable Control 2. Should I just launch? I think I have done this before and it didn't help but curious why it isn't running

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18 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I have 15 of these things myself, some old and some new (like yours, V.41 through V.44).  One of the newer sensors shipped with a weak battery, so I went through a similar process with it.  It's unlikely that you have two with bad batteries, but it's a simple test.  I believe it takes over 24 hours for a heartbeat to show up.

Hello - definitely new batteries in these

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1 minute ago, f.demello said:

Hello - I have replaced the batteries with new Energizers.

 

I did this for one of them Paul. Seems to have worked in that it is still listed. Not sure how to test to be sure.

I am noticing a few of my leak sensors do not have Running Then for Variable Control 2. Should I just launch? I think I have done this before and it didn't help but curious why it isn't running

Yeh I'm not sure on when to expect the first message. If I designed this I'd want the heartbeat to fire as soon as the battery went in.. but who knows. Maybe someone else here that uses them knows what to expect. The manual for this device is a little vacant in the trouble shooting table compared to other insteon devices
 

 

1 minute ago, f.demello said:

The other thing I find odd is when I look at the ISY now, the current state is totally blank. Before I started messing with this I had some dates filled in here. Does that indicate an issue or is that normal?

The program won't run until it gets the hearbeat message the first time. And the heartbeat ~ 24 hours. So these can trickle in. The AC will wait to get a real message before updating.

Re-booting the ISY or editing the programs or changing the devices restarts everything. You certainly can start the process by re-running manually, but the program is there to prove that the process is working, starting with a message from the devices

Paul
 

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This is a bit of a SWAG, but on the motion sensor, a single tap sends an on message, after a pause, a second single tap sends an off. You could try Single tap on the sensor and see if data populates on the AC and alert programs run.

If nothing happens, try a double tap... this puts it in linking mode which it will stop after a few minutes... again this is a SWAG. It won't hurt anything, might help

 

EDIT: @f.demelloTake a look starting at page 3 - Make leak sensor a controller

Skip step 3... don't add an responders manually

Try steps 4 & 5 - the device will talk to linked devices... see if the ISY will respond

Worse thing that could happen is it will need a "restore device" from the ISY

Paul

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  • 1 year later...

Hi.  All my water leak sensors (5 of them) stopped working at the same time and control 2 for all of them is not staying in "run then" config.  I tried all of the above (change batteries, delete and add back, hard reset).  Nothing seems to do it, they do not report any wet condition any more (some are in the basement, main floor and 2nd floor.  They have been working for a few years now and suddenly, none are working.  I fall short of any solution.  Anyone could help, please.

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