ISY control of ELK M1 relays?

[jpelzer]

I've searched quite a bit, but haven't seen any references to relay control on the M1 initiated by the ISY-99i. I don't have my M1 installed yet, but I have the relay boards to support the 8 zones I'll need for my heating and AC (4 zones for each, split boiler/forced air systems), but I want to use several Insteon thermostats and the ISY (very fond of my ISY) as an interface into the system, and then the M1 actually throwing the relays.

 

Possible?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello jplezer,

 

Unfortunately, currently, except for arm/disarm from the Admin console, ISY cannot initiate any other commands to ELK.

 

This said, however, this is on our list with medium priority.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

I've searched quite a bit, but haven't seen any references to relay control on the M1 initiated by the ISY-99i. I don't have my M1 installed yet, but I have the relay boards to support the 8 zones I'll need for my heating and AC (4 zones for each, split boiler/forced air systems), but I want to use several Insteon thermostats and the ISY (very fond of my ISY) as an interface into the system, and then the M1 actually throwing the relays.

 

Possible?

[jpelzer]

Oh, finally went to test this IRL, now I see what you mean. There is actually ZERO ISY->M1 control at this point, only M1->ISY control. That's a shame. Hope that gets bumped up to the head of the queue soon!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello jpelzer,

 

You are 99.9% correct: you can arm/disarm your ELK system from ISY.

 

We should have more integration with ELK soon.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Oh, finally went to test this IRL, now I see what you mean. There is actually ZERO ISY->M1 control at this point, only M1->ISY control. That's a shame. Hope that gets bumped up to the head of the queue soon!

[jpelzer]

Arm/Disarm via the Java console you mean? I count that as a proof of concept more than an actual feature. Glad to know full integration is planned, but right now I think it's misleading to say that the ISY can control the Elk. Even having the ISY know the M1's status would be a HUGE improvement, for reasons as stated over here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=2693

[Michel Kohanim]

jpelzer,

 

ISY does know the status of ELK even though the status cannot be used in programs (this is on the Admin Console as well as HTML pages).

 

The major issue that we are dealing with is the translation between ELK nodes and ISY nodes. The rest are not that difficult.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Arm/Disarm via the Java console you mean? I count that as a proof of concept more than an actual feature. Glad to know full integration is planned, but right now I think it's misleading to say that the ISY can control the Elk. Even having the ISY know the M1's status would be a HUGE improvement, for reasons as stated over here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=2693

[nachthorn]

...Even having the ISY know the M1's status would be a HUGE improvement, for reasons as stated over here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=2693

 

I would like to second that motion.

 

Being able to fire ISY programs or change folder conditions based on ELK arm mode would be enormously useful and I do hope that this can be addressed in an upcoming release. Because ISY already knows the arm status of ELK, it seems that this should be a snap to implement. I think that most users would be satisfied with continuing a gradual rollout of ELK integration--with the more complex issues (i.e., node translation) addressed down the road.

 

Best,

 

Mark

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Mark,

 

Yes indeed almost getting to the top of our list.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

...Even having the ISY know the M1's status would be a HUGE improvement, for reasons as stated over here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=2693

 

I would like to second that motion.

 

Being able to fire ISY programs or change folder conditions based on ELK arm mode would be enormously useful and I do hope that this can be addressed in an upcoming release. Because ISY already knows the arm status of ELK, it seems that this should be a snap to implement. I think that most users would be satisfied with continuing a gradual rollout of ELK integration--with the more complex issues (i.e., node translation) addressed down the road.

 

Best,

 

Mark

[ryarber]

I'll chime in and third that. At the very least right now, if we could make the armed state of the ELK a condition for programming triggers.

 

Right now, I have to trigger my ISY programs indirectly based on scenes that turn on and off as the ELK is armed for Away, Vacation, Night, or Stay modes. The keypadlincs, in my experience are very unreliable for this purpose.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi ryarber,

 

Thanks so very much ... the more feedback we have the higher the priority gets.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[IndyMike]

Michel,

 

Is it permissible to "bump" a topic after 5 hours?

 

If there is nothing in the Gentleman's code book against this (likely wouldn't apply to me anyway), I'd like to add my vote as well.

 

IM

 

Hi ryarber,

 

Thanks so very much ... the more feedback we have the higher the priority gets.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi all,

 

More ELK support is now schedule for 2.7.8 Beta.

 

2.7.6 should be out by the end of this week which is quite a major release with support for grouping buttons and folders/rooms.

2.7.7 should be a minimal release with bug fixes

2.7.8 should have ELK support ... (unless we run into unforeseen issues)

 

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[danswatman]

Great I'd be up for more elk integration.... very useful in my book

 

Thanks,

Dan

[Traditore]

Count me in.

[brad77]

And me. I'd love to trigger programs/notifications based on Elk alarm events.

[FRR]

Count me in TOO! But I must have programs triggered on the status of an individual ELK input (zone) as well as alarm status, arm mode, etc. Also MUST have the ability to control ELK output relays.

 

UD Thanks for support us.

[bTwix]

Count me in for better Elk integration as well.

 

*****************************************************

Moving Denon CI RS-232 integration out of Elk and into ISY-99

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In Elk any logic that requires a sequence of serial commands (e.g. Denon CI integration) requires chaining rules together that trigger on fake output timeouts since Elk only allows one serial port command per Elk rule. So getting my Denon CI systems controlled by Elk turned out to be doable, but quite messy and has filled up my Elk M1 Gold rules to 98% full. I just ordered an ISY-99 (upgrade from ISY-26) and GC-100 to get this Denon CI logic out of Elk and into ISY and to support additional tasks.

 

Currently the Elk turns the Denon CI radios on (bed, kitchen, bath) as the "wake alarm" in the morning. Elk keypad F2, F3, and F4 control the Denon CI systems (Stereo Off, FM radio, iTunes). When the alarm is armed away, the stereos shut off as do the lights.

 

So, when I move my Denon CI control out of Elk and into ISY, I'd like the ability to trigger ISY programs from Elk - e.g. so my Elk keypad F keys will work as before. It sounds like the current workaround for this is to use a fake ISY scene and turn it on/off from Elk and then have ISY trigger on the scene to run an ISY program. Definitely not as clean as I would like, but hopefully workable.

 

I suppose ISY could support this with no changes from Elk by providing direct Elk -> ISY RS-232 integration (although that probably goes against the existing ethernet integration) or ISY triggering off F key press, or an Elk output state change. However, I'd prefer to see Elk implement a REST command (like "send email") via the ethernet expander. Maybe Elk already has a fw update that does this? e.g. call ISY /rest/program/0032/runThen

 

*************************************************

eKeypad M1 and eKeypad ISY?

*************************************************

Also since I'm already using eKeypad M1, it would be nice if I didn't have to get eKeypad ISY in addition to eKeypad M1 just to launch ISY programs (currently I'm using eKeypad M1 to fire Elk tasks which gets the job done today). If Elk implements a REST command that could be invoked from Elk rules, then I could continue using eKeypad M1 as the single iPhone interface to my home automation system vs. having to get both eKeypad M1 and eKeypad ISY.

 

*****************************************************

Moving HVAC logic out of Elk and into ISY-99

*****************************************************

Also, I'd like to move my HVAC logic out of Elk and into ISY. I have a normal HVAC system and a whole house fan (to save power and create a nice breeze through the house). Currently, Elk triggers on window sensor changes, temp changes, and thermostat changes. When the windows close, there's an Elk rule to set the the main HVAC thermostat to "on" and turns the whole house fan "off" via ISY-26. When windows open, there's an Elk rule to set the thermostat to "off" and turn whole house fan "on"/"off" based on exterior/interior temperature sensors.

 

However to move this logic from Elk to ISY, I'd need a fast response time to state changes in Elk inputs (window sensors). Essentially, the whole house fan is only supposed to be on IF a window or door is open. If not, it create a large negative pressure in the house and starts sucking dust through the ceiling lights, etc.). Elk is able to respond to the window sensor change and turn off the whole house fan fast enough for this to not be an issue (< 1 sec). However if I move this HVAC logic to ISY, I need to know that the event propagation and response time will be fast enough. So whatever integration you do with triggering ISY programs off Elk state changes it would have to be fast and reliable for HVAC use case. If not I'll have to leave the HVAC logic in Elk.

 

Thanks as always for such a great product. The ISY-26 rescued my Insteon installation a couple years ago and I just ordered the upgrade to ISY-99i/IR PRO. You guys rock. Keep up the good work.

 

Regards,

Phil

[jaysonc]

bTwix,

 

I am working to finalize the beta testing of eKeypad ISY support this month (September). You may be interested to know that along with the standalone eK ISY application, I will also be adding ISY support to eK Pro.

 

Within eK Pro you will be able to configure both the Elk M1 and an ISY simultaneously. Within the application you will be able to switch between the devices without exiting the application.

 

Also I am also working on a "consolidated" view that will allow you to access both devices at the same time. Hopefully it will make the September release. This feature will allow you to configure eKeypad to control lights via the ISY and relays via the Elk. Then when you select the Lights screen eKeypad will automatically interact with the ISY. if you switch to the Outputs screen eKeypad will automatically interact with the Elk. If you happen to tell eKeypad to control lights on both the Elk and the ISY, then the lights screen will consolidate the data from both devices into a single list.

 

--

Jayson

eKeypad Pro

Web: http://web.mac.com/japps/

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/eKeypad/

[apostolakisl]

Put me in as a vote to increase elk integration.

 

Just a thought, but i suppose you could use some "dummy" insteon switches as an elk interface. In other words, have some switches that don't control anything. Just build yourself a mounting box and wire up a dozen or more switches in a row. You could write rules on the elk to turn the switches on and off based on the status of various relays or zones on the elk. Then program the isy to monitor those swtiches for status changes. You could do it backwards as well having the isy trigger switches on/off with the elk monitoring those and triggering events on the elk like turning a relay on/off.

 

Maybe you could convince insteon to give you a bunch of there bad switches for this purpose. They probably have thousands of trashed switches because of the microswitch issue of theirs. The fact that the paddles on those swtiches don't work would be irrelevant.

[ITT]

Hey guys,

 

ITT's up for more ELK intergration as well. And ya the dummy switch idea does work pretty well. We set up a ELK M1Gold and ISY at a job and the problem we we having was we picked up some insteon flood senors. but when it went off we needed the ELK to also respond by turning off some relays we installed that were connected to some waterfall features to kill the water supply. So what we did was when the flood sensor was triggered it would also turn on a dummy power outlet in a room that nothings plugged into. Once that happened the ELK saw this and we wrote a rule that when that plug was on turn on this relay that in turn turns on the motorized water valve and that shuts off the water. A bit of a pain but it does work. As well another rule we wrote was an all off rule that when the alarm is armed then the fountains plug would go off in the elk and then the ISY would see this and turn off everything else in the condo. So it can work both ways!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi ITT,

 

We have it in our plans!

 

Thanks so very much for the feedback.

 

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[apostolakisl]

Well I guess I am not the lone genius I thought I was creating my novel "dummy" switch idea. I have my elk set up with water protectiong circuits as well but don't have the confidence in insteon to allow it to be any part of a water emergency plan. I just see too many random insteon communication failures to trust it to do anything but control lights.

 

Hey guys,

 

ITT's up for more ELK intergration as well. And ya the dummy switch idea does work pretty well. We set up a ELK M1Gold and ISY at a job and the problem we we having was we picked up some insteon flood senors. but when it went off we needed the ELK to also respond by turning off some relays we installed that were connected to some waterfall features to kill the water supply. So what we did was when the flood sensor was triggered it would also turn on a dummy power outlet in a room that nothings plugged into. Once that happened the ELK saw this and we wrote a rule that when that plug was on turn on this relay that in turn turns on the motorized water valve and that shuts off the water. A bit of a pain but it does work. As well another rule we wrote was an all off rule that when the alarm is armed then the fountains plug would go off in the elk and then the ISY would see this and turn off everything else in the condo. So it can work both ways!

[nachthorn]

Hi all,

 

More ELK support is now schedule for 2.7.8 Beta.

<>

2.7.8 should have ELK support ... (unless we run into unforeseen issues)

 

It looks like ELK support didn't make it into 2.7.8/2.7.9, which is understandable. Is there any chance it will be incorporated into the next release?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi nachthorn,

 

Sincere apologies ... we had to change release numbers to keep up with all the changes. As such, ELK will not make it into 2.7.x release. Once we have the 2.7.x officially released, ELK will be in the next alpha/beta.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Quixote]

I don't own an Elk yet, but I will shortly. From the research I've done, it's just about the most versatile product on the market for HA. It would be a winning combination with the ISY with more communication between the two and I would definitely be interested in any future developments.