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Hue Scenes


simplextech

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Any chance of getting Hue Scenes (stored on the bridge) exposed as nodes for use in programs or ISY scenes?  I'm looking to swap out a Hue "switch" with a KPL and it would be great to assign the buttons to Hue Scenes for changing the entire room lighting.

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2 hours ago, simplextech said:

Any chance of getting Hue Scenes (stored on the bridge) exposed as nodes for use in programs or ISY scenes?  I'm looking to swap out a Hue "switch" with a KPL and it would be great to assign the buttons to Hue Scenes for changing the entire room lighting.

If you're using the node server, couldn't you simply re-create the scenes in the isy itself? This would give you more capabilities than using the hue app

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3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

If you're using the node server, couldn't you simply re-create the scenes in the isy itself? This would give you more capabilities than using the hue app

The Hue scenes are "color" or "Temperature" settings defined and can be assigned to groups of lamps.  Also with using the Hue scene is nice a fluid for the colors and changing...and available if using the ISY or mobile app or the wall switch thingy which is actually a handy remote... I probably could replicate.... however the info is readily available in the REST api of the bridge.  If I have time I may just add it myself and send a PR for the added features....I'll have to sign up for a Hue developer account to get the needed docs... maybe I'll just do that anyways.

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1 hour ago, simplextech said:

The Hue scenes are "color" or "Temperature" settings defined and can be assigned to groups of lamps.  Also with using the Hue scene is nice a fluid for the colors and changing...and available if using the ISY or mobile app or the wall switch thingy which is actually a handy remote... I probably could replicate.... however the info is readily available in the REST api of the bridge.  If I have time I may just add it myself and send a PR for the added features....I'll have to sign up for a Hue developer account to get the needed docs... maybe I'll just do that anyways.

I know what the scenes are, just don't see why it can't be replicated in scenes via the isy the same way (I don't use the node server for it)

With that said, you can use network resources as well to accomplish that with programs, which is what I use.

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48 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I know what the scenes are, just don't see why it can't be replicated in scenes via the isy the same way (I don't use the node server for it)

With that said, you can use network resources as well to accomplish that with programs, which is what I use.

ok... didn't know there's a lot of people that don't know about Hue Scenes and such.  Then there's the confusion of the Insteon and z-wave and such from the term "scene"... 

I suppose with network resources it could be done as it's just a call to the REST end point which can be done.  Probably just the dev in me with a nodeserver aka plugin to make it "fuller"?  Bringing some nice user-friendly touches to the nodeservers.... Off topic but I hope if the HTML5 interface ever comes around it will have far more flexibility in the UI capabilities of information display... 

How are you doing this with ISY Scenes?  Adding the lamp or group and adjusting the values as part of the scene?  Interesting if that's how you're doing it... I actually didn't think of doing it that way... 

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One of the big limitations of node servers that gets in the way of this is that node servers can only deal with things that can be represented as numbers.  So you can't use Hue Scene names on the ISY -- you'd have to remember that scene "31" in the node server corresponds to scene "Evening Movie" (or whatever) in the Hue hub.  :-(  So in the end there's no really significant gain from using the Hue node server for scenes over using network resources.

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Just now, mwester said:

One of the big limitations of node servers that gets in the way of this is that node servers can only deal with things that can be represented as numbers.  So you can't use Hue Scene names on the ISY -- you'd have to remember that scene "31" in the node server corresponds to scene "Evening Movie" (or whatever) in the Hue hub.  :-(  So in the end there's no really significant gain from using the Hue node server for scenes over using network resources.

Yes all of that is... partially true :)

It is possible to use text values for devices BUT it is a PITA to work with from my stand point.  But it is possible.  The largest issue is that the profile has to be re-written and loaded anytime there would be a Hue Scene change on the bridge.  I'm doing this with Traccar NS for the names of the Geofences and I think the EcoBee NS also does this and a couple others.  Those NS's were great examples of how to do this.  I'm hopeful perhaps when the UI changes this limitation or requirement will change as well.

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15 minutes ago, simplextech said:

ok... didn't know there's a lot of people that don't know about Hue Scenes and such.  Then there's the confusion of the Insteon and z-wave and such from the term "scene"... 

I suppose with network resources it could be done as it's just a call to the REST end point which can be done.  Probably just the dev in me with a nodeserver aka plugin to make it "fuller"?  Bringing some nice user-friendly touches to the nodeservers.... Off topic but I hope if the HTML5 interface ever comes around it will have far more flexibility in the UI capabilities of information display... 

How are you doing this with ISY Scenes?  Adding the lamp or group and adjusting the values as part of the scene?  Interesting if that's how you're doing it... I actually didn't think of doing it that way... 

Everything I do is with presets. I dont see the point in standing there holding a button. I simply create my scenes in the hue app and create the network resources to activate them based on the situation.

 

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8 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Everything I do is with presets. I dont see the point in standing there holding a button. I simply create my scenes in the hue app and create the network resources to activate them based on the situation.

 

The holding of the button for dim/bright is a nice feature for wife, kids, guests...I try to keep things working "like normal" but add to them as well.  Still introducing double taps to my wife... still not sticking... not sure when this came into the scenes discussion?

The ISY scenes and network resources will work fine for the KPL setup though.  

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5 minutes ago, simplextech said:

The holding of the button for dim/bright is a nice feature for wife, kids, guests...I try to keep things working "like normal" but add to them as well.  Still introducing double taps to my wife... still not sticking... not sure when this came into the scenes discussion?

The ISY scenes and network resources will work fine for the KPL setup though.  

I understand that. My viewpoint and setup is different. I dont care about guest and when it comes to everyone else, the simpler the better. I only use hue for accent lights and lamps which plays a major part in how things operate. All other fixtures are insteon so they can be dimmed should one choose. With that said, Each room has a kpl in it which controls all of the other switches with presets. Over the years, Ive found no one ever actually uses the switches and prefers the kpl button (this applies to other peoples homes too)presets which is why I pretty much exclusively do it this way.

Good luck with the double tap. It took forever for mine to get accustomed to them. I do try to keep it at a minimum though. The only double taps are in the bedroom for the lamps (1 tap at the bed turns on your lamp while a double tap turns on both). Our goodnight buttons throughout the house will activate the usual stuff based on a single tap while a double tap will do them same and setup our bedroom for us. 

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I also try to keep a standard method. Double tap means more light, or more light, everywhere. I don't use KPLs for lighting at all. I use 12 MSes for most basic room lighting, and Alexa for coloured or dimming scene lighting. The MS controlled lights are night time level capped by ISY routines so they don't burn your eyes out at night. One entrance to the room switchLinc can also control most of my coloured lamps and cabinets lights along with the Insteon controlled pot lights throughout my gathering room.

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I can agree with the Hue/LIFX for accent lights.  I only use them for floor/table lamps.  I do currently have a group of 5 Hue in the dining room lights... I had them sitting around so I'm playing with them.  Which brought about the questions about the Hue Nodeserver and extending it.  I have plans to put a KPL replacing the current dimmer and set that up to control the dining room and living room.  I also use a KPL at the hallway controlling the living room for all lights or individual and presets.

As for the double taps... yeah... never gonna happen :)

In my house I'm the geeky one nobody else really cares as long as things work... but it is funny how when I do shutdown the house for maintenance (I'm breaking things) then they notice and ask when things will "work" again... which is good that things are working unobtrusively and became normal.

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1 hour ago, simplextech said:

Yes all of that is... partially true :)

It is possible to use text values for devices BUT it is a PITA to work with from my stand point.  But it is possible.  The largest issue is that the profile has to be re-written and loaded anytime there would be a Hue Scene change on the bridge.  I'm doing this with Traccar NS for the names of the Geofences and I think the EcoBee NS also does this and a couple others.  Those NS's were great examples of how to do this.  I'm hopeful perhaps when the UI changes this limitation or requirement will change as well.

I considered that route, and decided not to go in that direction -- there be dragons.  UDI never provided guidance on how expensive a reload of the configuration really might be -- plus my experience in troubleshooting software issues for 30+ years has taught me to not use administrative operations intended to be used infrequently in any other way than intended; they're not tested nearly as well, they're never performance tuned, memory and resource leaks are often overlooked, ignored, or dismissed as "trivial", and the list goes on and on.  Perhaps its different with the ISY, but in general, it's poor practice and just asking for trouble down the road.  (To be fair, the application I was trying to do was a Sonos node server, where the playlists, current station, current tune, would be changing constantly many times an hour -- one might argue that a set of Hue scenes might only change a few times a week or even a few times a month, once people got done playing with it...)

Plus, it just feels wrong.  Profiles are static data.  Rewriting a profile every time a dynamic string changes is a kludge, and just wrong... it's kinda like having to reboot your PC every time you open a new application -- we're past that point in technology now!  Edited to add a better example: it's actually more like having to re-install your text messaging app with an updated library of pre-canned texts on your phone every time you need to send a text message you didn't already have in your library... and then calling that "dynamic"!

But whatever works, I guess.  And if time proves that we can install and update profiles several times a minute with no adverse effects, well, that might be a way to have a limited-update node server that can "send" text data to the ISY.  (You've no idea how painful it is to write that; it feels SO WRONG!)

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12 minutes ago, mwester said:

Plus, it just feels wrong.  Profiles are static data.  Rewriting a profile every time a dynamic string changes is a kludge, and just wrong... it's kinda like having to reboot your PC every time you open a new application -- we're past that point in technology now!  Edited to add a better example: it's actually more like having to re-install your text messaging app with an updated library of pre-canned texts on your phone every time you need to send a text message you didn't already have in your library... and then calling that "dynamic"!

Oh I completely agree this is a kludge workaround at best.  Definitely not something I would use/do for something that changed frequently.  

13 minutes ago, mwester said:

But whatever works, I guess.  And if time proves that we can install and update profiles several times a minute with no adverse effects, well, that might be a way to have a limited-update node server that can "send" text data to the ISY.  (You've no idea how painful it is to write that; it feels SO WRONG!)

I would hope in the future the need to modify profiles which are static would no longer be necessary and the UI could actually be made more dynamic.  Text/string data types has been requested for many uses so we'll see if they ever come to the ISY.  Time will tell and perhaps that will never happen as it's really not the nature of the ISY anyways.  

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  • 1 year later...
1 hour ago, notslow said:

So can you activate hue scenes stored on hue bridge by network resources?
 

Also, can you use network resources to see hue Light "state"? If isy can see a hue bulb is on, I could use that to run isy programs.

 

NRs can send any Ethernet packet you want. Hue protocol is basically all text and NRs can do all of it.

However, NRs are out of ISY  (one way) only. There is no feedback. For statuses IIRC there is a Hue Node Server to do that. This requires a RPi,  polisy, or cloud based,  PolyGlot server to handle the NS.

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Great! So I can use the keypadlinc to control hue scenes with network resources, but need more hardware to have Hue send anything to isy. All I really need is to set hue scenes by KPL or other isy triggers like alarm.

It would have been nice to be able to use light turning on or off as an isy trigger, but not worth the extra hardware and learning curve of figuring out polyglot.

Is there a tutorial anywhere on how to set up network resources with hue? I'm not an IT guy, so hopefully this isn't over my head.

 

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  • 1 year later...

A year has gone by since this topic started and perhaps the Hue hardware/software I just bought in 2021 had changed some.

I just installed a Hue Bridge, BR30 extended color flood and the Hue Polyglot.

It looks like Hue Scenes are not represented as Polyglot Nodes in the ISY so if you want the ISY to turn Hue Scenes on and off you need to use Network Resources. Just wanted to definitively state that here.

 

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42 minutes ago, vbphil said:

A year has gone by since this topic started and perhaps the Hue hardware/software I just bought in 2021 had changed some.

I just installed a Hue Bridge, BR30 extended color flood and the Hue Polyglot.

It looks like Hue Scenes are not represented as Polyglot Nodes in the ISY so if you want the ISY to turn Hue Scenes on and off you need to use Network Resources. Just wanted to definitively state that here.

Just within the last month or so, hue came out with a re-write of the bridge firmware and apps.  They've released incremental updates in the past but this summers edition was a "from the ground up" re-write.  It's backwards compatible where possible... but like difference between ISY v4 and v5, where it wasn't possible it wasn't bent to fit.  I'm quite certain the effects are seen in the Hue nodeserver hasn't had much in the way of updates for a couple years.

If you have an iPhone or iPad be certain to download iConnectHue from the app store.  It has no connection to the ISY eco-system whatsoever, but it can make lights do things you never thought of doing.   I have some living art that utilizes 5 bulbs and an animation from that app.

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1 hour ago, MrBill said:

........  I have some living art that utilizes 5 bulbs and an animation from that app.

Interesting. Anyway you could post a short video of the animation?

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1 hour ago, vbphil said:

Interesting. Anyway you could post a short video of the animation?

Here's 3 of the 5 pieces.  The wall space is above the TV, for perspective the middle piece (the Iguana) almost 5'.  The other two pieces are in other parts of the room, and not iron/glass, but tied in by the animation. (also they don't actually flicker, that's a video side effect.)

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11 minutes ago, MrBill said:

....... The wall space is above the TV, for perspective the middle piece (the Iguana) almost 5'.  The other two pieces are in other parts of the room, and not iron/glass, but tied in by the animation. (also they don't actually flicker, that's a video side effect.)

Must be quite the room! Looks very cool.

 

I'm not successful turning a Hue scene on with an ISY Network Resource. I followed the now archived topic, isy-and-phillips-hue-integration . I am able to with groups just not scenes. 

Here is how the resource is configured in ISY:

1081762189_ResourceEditor-Scene.thumb.jpg.77be4e15bef2fb5d905a3ff5863f5f45.jpg

The scene is in group 1 with the name: gQwMyunB2dHQ1Wv

Any ideas?

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4 minutes ago, vbphil said:

Must be quite the room! Looks very cool.

 

I'm not successful turning a Hue scene on with an ISY Network Resource. I followed the now archived topic, isy-and-phillips-hue-integration . I am able to with groups just not scenes. 

Here is how the resource is configured in ISY:

1081762189_ResourceEditor-Scene.thumb.jpg.77be4e15bef2fb5d905a3ff5863f5f45.jpg

The scene is in group 1 with the name: gQwMyunB2dHQ1Wv

Any ideas?

Looks to me like you have extra spaces between everything

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