Garage door opener for dummies (INSTEON model 74551)

[to_lighter]

Hi gang,

 

My installer installed two garage door openers for me (INSTEON model 74551). As far as I know, he installed them as per the written instructions that came with the kit. I have added them to the ISY 99i. I decided to have a go at programming them, and read the article on the wiki with growing dismay.

 

http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... e_Door_Kit

 

It seems to me that the door sensor is ON when the garage door is closed. The relay status seems random. The doors only change position when the ON command is sent to the relay. Is this the normal activity?

 

There was a discussion in the Wiki in how to set the options for the control kit. Are these steps necessary? How do I know if my relay is open or closed? I certainly didn't like the part about losing local control of the door if the options were not set correctly

 

Is there a i/o link for dummies course? Could someone explain the meaning of the technical terms in the wiki for this device? Maybe that info could be added to that page in the wiki ...

 

Cheers!

[Brian H]

There is a users manual for the I/OLinc on Smarthome's wiki.

http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?tit ... %27s_Guide

 

No sure if it will assist you in understanding the I/OLinc.

[to_lighter]

There is a users manual for the I/OLinc on Smarthome's wiki.

http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?tit ... %27s_Guide

 

No sure if it will assist you in understanding the I/OLinc.

 

Thanks Brian,

 

Starting to understand the lingo a bit better.

 

The following paragraph from the wiki is what has me confused:

 

"If you wired the sensor according to the directions provided with the kit, you used the black and green wires from the reed switch. These are the normally open leads from the sensor. If you sensor is normally open then you need to enable the Trigger Off option in the I/O Linc options dialog to make it behave as if it was a normally closed sensor. Be sure the Relay is set to Momentary: A as this allows the relay to return to the off state after it triggers the garage door opener (after the Timeout). Without this, you may lose the ability to control the door locally since the garage door button is essentially being held down by the relay.

Select the I/OLinc Relay in the tree view and click the Set Options button in the view pane. Enable Trigger Off if you are using a normally open sensor. Be sure Momentary: A is enabled and all other Momentary options are disabled."

 

 

First off, the sensor doesn't have a normally open or normally closed position. It is wired with a sense and a ground. You can select to wire the relay as either normally open or normally closed.

 

If I understand the Smartlabs directions properly, then they had suggested wiring the relay in the normally open position, which I interpret to mean that normally there is no electricity flowing to the garage door opener terminals from the I/O Link. Only when the relay is triggered does it close, completing the circuit between the I/O Link and the door opener. I'm not sure why the wiki suggests changing the setting to normally closed, that makes no sense to me.

 

The other suggestion to switch to Momentary mode makes sense to me. If the default setting is "latching" mode, then the relay will stay open or closed until it is triggered again. Useful for turning on sprinklers and leaving them on, but not so useful for garage doors. In the link that you sent, Smartlabs suggests using Momentary Mode C for garage doors.

 

Finally, and most importantly, is there any safety issue here? Will a command from the Insteon system triggering a garage door closure overrule the door's object detecting sensor?

 

Cheers!

[to_lighter]

OK,

 

A bit of experimentation revealed something quite terrifying. The garage door opener will ignore the door's obstruction sensor and continue to close the door even if something is in the way if the door is closed by an Insteon command. This is if you set up the I/O link in the default manner. The only way to get things to work properly is to follow the Wiki, set Tigger Off and Momentary: A. I don't understand why this works, but it does, and allows for local control, stopping of the door by the obstruction sensor, etc.

 

This is potentially a huge safety issue. I'm glad I took a moment to experiment this morning.

 

Cheers!

[to_lighter]

OK,

 

A bit of experimentation revealed something quite terrifying. The garage door opener will ignore the door's obstruction sensor and continue to close the door even if something is in the way if the door is closed by an Insteon command. This is if you set up the I/O link in the default manner. The only way to get things to work properly is to follow the Wiki, set Tigger Off and Momentary: A. I don't understand why this works, but it does, and allows for local control, stopping of the door by the obstruction sensor, etc.

 

This is potentially a huge safety issue. I'm glad I took a moment to experiment this morning.

 

Cheers!

 

One final disturbing observation. In my setup, if the door is obstructed, it will close anyway if triggered by an Insteon command. If something moves in front of the obstruction sensor while the door is closing then the door will stop and open back up again, but the fact that the door is obstructed is ignored if the obstruction is present when the Insteon command is sent.

 

Cheers!

[to_lighter]

OK,

 

A bit of experimentation revealed something quite terrifying. The garage door opener will ignore the door's obstruction sensor and continue to close the door even if something is in the way if the door is closed by an Insteon command. This is if you set up the I/O link in the default manner. The only way to get things to work properly is to follow the Wiki, set Tigger Off and Momentary: A. I don't understand why this works, but it does, and allows for local control, stopping of the door by the obstruction sensor, etc.

 

This is potentially a huge safety issue. I'm glad I took a moment to experiment this morning.

 

Cheers!

 

 

One final disturbing observation. In my setup, if the door is obstructed, it will close anyway if triggered by an Insteon command. If something moves in front of the obstruction sensor while the door is closing then the door will stop and open back up again, but the fact that the door is obstructed is ignored if the obstruction is present when the Insteon command is sent.

 

Cheers!

 

OK, final experiment. In fact, my previous post is incorrect. With a fixed obstruction in place, an Insteon command will start closing the door. After the I/O Link's 2 second timeout, the door will recognize the obstruction and start moving upwards. This is much longer than the usual near-instantaneous response of the door's usual behavior. The 2 second delay could be a safety issue if the obstruction were tall, or if the door were already partly closed. It would seem that the ISY-99i can't set the timeout to anything shorter than 2 seconds, unfortunately.

 

Cheers!

[RichTJ99]

Has your IO linc opened the garage without your asking it to do so (or close it)? I ask because twice that happened to me & SH is sending me a replacement, something wrong with the relay they think.

[to_lighter]

Has your IO linc opened the garage without your asking it to do so (or close it)? I ask because twice that happened to me & SH is sending me a replacement, something wrong with the relay they think.

 

So far, no problems that way, although it was just installed.

 

Cheers!

[Traditore]

The IOL sensor can be on or off whether the door is opened or closed. It all depends on the way the IOL is configured. From what I read here, quite a few people (myself included) prefer to have the IOL sensor ON when the door is opened and OFF when the door is closed. It seems logical. Most of the time, the IOL relay will be OFF but for 2 seconds when it is operating.

 

I agree with you. The wiki is confusing. I chose not to use the Toggle Button Mode option. When I press my KPL button, the door opens and the LED turns on, when I press it again, the door closes and the LED turns off. It's the same when I use the remote in my car or the garage door transmitter on the wall. The sensor sends its state to the KPL button.

 

Following your post, I tested my door's obstruction sensor and everything is working fine. I can confirm that after the IOL timeout, the door will recognize the obstruction and start moving upwards. Yes. It is is much longer than the usual near-instantaneous response of the door's usual behavior. I think that the ISY can't set the timeout to anything shorter than 2 seconds because the IOL has a momentary duration ranging from 2 to 25 seconds. So don't blame the little black box. (:

 

Here's my setup:

-red wire (from magnetic contact sensor) to IOL's sense

-green wire (from magnetic contact sensor) to IOL's ground

-one wire to IOL's common terminal and garage door motor

-on wire to IOL's N/O terminal and garage door motor

 

When my garage door is open, the Sensor Status LED on the IOL is on. And it's off when the door is closed.

 

In my ISY, I have scene in which the KPL button is a controller and the relay is a responder. Options for the relay are set at "LED on TX", "Momentary: A" and "Momentary: Both".

 

I hope this helps.

[to_lighter]

The IOL sensor can be on or off whether the door is opened or closed. It all depends on the way the IOL is configured. From what I read here, quite a few people (myself included) prefer to have the IOL sensor ON when the door is opened and OFF when the door is closed. It seems logical. Most of the time, the IOL relay will be OFF but for 2 seconds when it is operating.

 

I agree with you. The wiki is confusing. I chose not to use the Toggle Button Mode option. When I press my KPL button, the door opens and the LED turns on, when I press it again, the door closes and the LED turns off. It's the same when I use the remote in my car or the garage door transmitter on the wall. The sensor sends its state to the KPL button.

 

Following your post, I tested my door's obstruction sensor and everything is working fine. I can confirm that after the IOL timeout, the door will recognize the obstruction and start moving upwards. Yes. It is is much longer than the usual near-instantaneous response of the door's usual behavior. I think that the ISY can't set the timeout to anything shorter than 2 seconds because the IOL has a momentary duration ranging from 2 to 25 seconds. So don't blame the little black box. (:

 

Here's my setup:

-red wire (from magnetic contact sensor) to IOL's sense

-green wire (from magnetic contact sensor) to IOL's ground

-one wire to IOL's common terminal and garage door motor

-on wire to IOL's N/O terminal and garage door motor

 

When my garage door is open, the Sensor Status LED on the IOL is on. And it's off when the door is closed.

 

In my ISY, I have scene in which the KPL button is a controller and the relay is a responder. Options for the relay are set at "LED on TX", "Momentary: A" and "Momentary: Both".

 

I hope this helps.

 

Thanks Traditore,

 

From the Owner's Manual:

"Note: Momentary duration can be set manually anywhere from 2 seconds up to 25 seconds; 0.2 - 25 seconds from HouseLinc 2 or other home automation software/controller which supports this feature in I/O Linc."

 

I was hoping that the ISY might by able to program the I/O Link to a shorter momentary duration. Does anyone from Universal Devices want to weigh in?

 

Cheers!

[Traditore]

Another excerpt from the Owner's Manual:

 

Note: Momentary duration can be set manually anywhere from 2 seconds up to 24 seconds or for 30 minutes; 0.2 - 1.8 hours from HouseLinc 2(*) or other home automation software/controller which supports this feature in I/O Linc.

(*) Feature coming soon!

 

I don't know if "0.2" is to interpreted as 0.2 seconds or 0.2 hours. Probably the former.

[andrewm]

I agree the Wiki topic is not entirely correct, but it gives the general idea - the key being to use 2 scenes.

 

I'm noticing a problem though with my setup "in the lab" using rev 2.7.6 - I don't know if the issue is release specific or even an IOLinc problem.

 

In this example I'm not touching the magnetic switch when I press the KPL - effectively simulating the IOLinc not receiving the control command. In which case, regardless of the current sensor value, after the KPL button is pressed the KPL button light will always flash and then stay on (because the KPL button is in non-toggle-on mode). From this I surmise that there's no automatic query done on the device proper after the control command, or even just check of the current value known to ISY. The net effect is the button light doesn't match the sensor status. Of course if the door actually moved, then this wouldn't be an issue.

 

My workaround for this was to then trigger a short program when the KPL button is pressed and set the sensor scene state programmatically after a short delay. However I noticed that turning ON that scene actually triggers the relay - even though the relay is not in that scene. That really doesn't seem right!