ISY99 does not know the state of a switch.

[jongig]

I have a ISY99 up to date and I'm not able to understand this very basic program which is my first. I have 2 switches for outside lights which I want to go on at sunset and go off at 11PM.

The program is" if time is sunset, then set outside garage lights on, else no actions.

 

At first it seemed to be working but after a week I've noticed several times that the lights are not on and upon opening the console the garage lights report as ON and yet they are not.

 

I thought this system would report on/off to the ISY99 and it would be monitoring status. I even thought maybe someone was turning off the lights but I'm sure now that this is not the case.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

John

[Brian H]

Have you done any of the built in diagnostic tests to the problem lights?

Maybe a scene test for the garage lights may give you a clue. Or with Event Viewer in Level 3 and a query to the lights. The log file may also show some data.

 

It sounds like a communications problem and I have also had devices show as ON when they missed the commands. I believe a scene command does not follow up with a status check of each module in the scene. So if an ON was sent by the ISY-99i; the My Lighting Screen will show On; while the module stayed off. A Query to the Scene in question or to My Lighting would then correct the display to what each module state was.

[jongig]

I just don't understand this because this is what I was sol on was that there was a comunication with the switch and that the witch would report back?

 

If in the console I turn a light on it seems to receive data back from the switch?

 

Okay onto the fix. You mentioned a queryy. Is this a line I should add to the programming so that there is verification the switch was on and if so could you explain in better detail just how to go about this. I am new at this and right off the bat it doesn't work and I'm not very happy about this. I spent a god sum f money outfitting half the house with these switches and my first try at a program doesn't work right.

 

John

[MikeB]

Hi John -

 

As Brian said, what's probably happening is that the ISY has sent a command to turn on the switch. The Admin Console thinks the switch is on, because it sent the command, but the switch never "heard" the command.

 

The trick is to find out what you can do to improve reliability between your ISY and the switch. Unfortunately, communication issues between INSTEON devices are outside of our control. But, maybe I can share some tips to help troubleshoot the problem.

 

- I assume you have a pair of INSTEON AccessPoints installed on opposite legs of power in your home? Try to locate them as close to your electrical panel as possible. If you have a 3rd AccessPoint, try putting it on the same circuit as this problem device. Also try to place one of your AccessPoints as close as possible, or right on top of, your INSTEON PLM.

 

- Where is your INSTEON PLM plugged into? Try to locate this on as "clean" a circuit as possible, away from other electronic devices if possible. A dedicated circuit is ideal.

 

- Some devices that can cause communication issues are: CFLs, low-voltage lighting, UPSs, PCs, televisions, surge protectors. If any of these devices are on the same circuit as your problem device, unplug them and test reliability to see if you can narrow down your issue. If you find a particular device causing your issues, you could purchase an INSTEON FilterLinc to try and filter the noise. Keep in mind you may have a cumulative effect going on where your problem is caused by several devices combined.

 

For troubleshooting, if you find a device that is not responding reliably to your ISY, try sending repeated ON/OFF commands to it from the ISY console. Something like 20 in a row, pausing for a second between commands. If it fails, say, 3 or 4 times, make an adjustment to your system per my recommendations above then try your tests again to see if it helps.

 

Here is a link to our user manual:

http://www.universal-devices.com/docs/i ... rguide.pdf

 

Appendix H includes some of the advice above.

 

Keep in mind that in many cases, filtering devices is not necessary. I have about a dozen PCs, several UPSs, and tons of electronics in my home and only have a couple of filters installed.

[jongig]

Our other house has plenty of X10 and I had trouble with that system and I had hoped these issues would not exist for me. My electrical is new as is the house and the house is very full of electronics. I do have a very large UPS which is hard wired at the electrical box and most of the PC's and sensitive electronics run directly from the UPS throughout the house. I do have AccessPoints installed on opposite legs of power. I have the PLM installed at the electrical box which is next to the UPS and next to tons of video and network equipment. The entire house is CFL's.

 

If the ISY is on a different leg than the lights does it mean that the access point has to intercept the command and then communicate with the second access point and redistribute the command?

 

On the other hand if I put the access points near the PLM now it will be quite a distance from the area where we use the RF remote controls. Will this be a new problem?

 

How do I send 20 commands or do you mean just turn on/off by click and then verifying the light went on/off?

 

Thanks,

 

John

[MikeB]

Hi John -

 

Our other house has plenty of X10 and I had trouble with that system and I had hoped these issues would not exist for me.

 

I believe you'd find INSTEON to be much more resilient than X10 for a variety of reasons, but unfortunately it is still susceptible to problems much like any powerline or RF technology.

 

 

My electrical is new as is the house and the house is very full of electronics. I do have a very large UPS which is hard wired at the electrical box and most of the PC's and sensitive electronics run directly from the UPS throughout the house.

 

I'm probably not qualified to comment on this setup, but I can tell you in general INSTEON devices should not be plugged into UPS devices because their filtering can affect the INSTEON signal. Not sure if this is part of your problem.

 

 

I do have AccessPoints installed on opposite legs of power. I have the PLM installed at the electrical box which is next to the UPS and next to tons of video and network equipment.

 

I would locate the PLM to a circuit away from these devices if possible. If possible, a dedicated circuit might be ideal since you're right at the electical panel anyway. I would throw an AccessPoint on top of your PLM.

 

 

The entire house is CFL's.

 

I have heard of some people having issues with CFLs installed, but never experienced it myself. I believe it depends on the brand, and I suspect newer CFLs are not a problem.

 

 

If the ISY is on a different leg than the lights does it mean that the access point has to intercept the command and then communicate with the second access point and redistribute the command?

 

Yes, unless you have a hardwired coupler installed at the panel.

 

 

On the other hand if I put the access points near the PLM now it will be quite a distance from the area where we use the RF remote controls. Will this be a new problem?

 

I find AccessPoints have a great range - I can control my driveway lights using a RemoteLinc from 200-300 feet away up my driveway. The signals won't travel as far through walls and appliances, but range should still be decent. I'd hate to have you spend money blindly, but in my 2600 sq foot home (+ finished basement) I have my PLM installed on a dedicated circuit in my basement with an AccessPoint right next to it (3 gang outlet). I have a 2nd AccessPoint installed on a different leg about 10 feet away to bridge the phases. I have 2 more AccessPoints installed in other areas of my home to increase my RF range and bounce signals to "trouble" areas.

 

I also have a FilterLinc installed on a 1500VA UPS powering my network rack, along a FilterLinc installed on my home theater equipment, and a 3rd FilterLinc installed on a 1000VA UPS powering my main PC. All other electronics in my home are unfiltered.

 

 

How do I send 20 commands or do you mean just turn on/off by click and then verifying the light went on/off?

 

Yes, in the past that's what I've personally done to help troubleshoot issues. I take a laptop to the light, login to the ISY's Admin Console, and control the device.

 

 

I'm sorry to hear of your issues, but I think you can improve things with a little bit of work.

[jongig]

Thanks Mike for the help and I'll work on it.

 

The UPS is hardwired and has hardwired outlets through out the house to sensitive equipment like TV's and computers and my theater and all network stuff but no lights or any Insteon devices. I knew better.

 

I am not home and can't really comment on too much because I don't get the time to really spend on this but I did notice one night where the ISY gave me trouble with even the living room lights going on but using the remote controls I've never seen a failure. My system has been up and running for 6 months but I never got around to working with the ISY. I also have light switches which are coupled with others and again I've never seen a failure. I did have a Dakota EZSnsRF Wireless Receiver & Motion Alert Transmitter which gave poor results and I removed the Dakota and left the EZSnsRF installed until two days ago when I figured I might as well remove it as well.

 

I didn't understand the EZSnsRF and the Dakota because it made me mad that it would turn the outside lights on and then the lights would not get turned off some of the time.

 

Any ideas on what else the EZSnsRF can be used for because it was expensive and I hate to see it sit around doing nothing.

 

Thanks,

 

John

[MikeB]

Hi John -

 

Your description sounds like your overall communications are OK, and perhaps you'll only need to relocate your PLM.

 

While your other switches/keypads only need to communicate reliably to maybe a few others, perhaps in relatively close proximity, the ISY/PLM has a distinct disadvantage in that you want it to communicate reliably with EVERY device in your home. You might want to take a 50 foot extension cord and use it to move your PLM around until you find a good location for it on the powerline. Again, a circuit with no other electronics is ideal. An AccessPoint right on top of the PLM really helps as well.

 

Also, something that might help a SMALL amount is using an AC adapter to power the ISY. Using the PLM to power the ISY is fine in the vast majority of cases, but it does take a bit of power away from the PLM's transmitter. Don't count on this to help much if at all however.

 

Sorry, not familiar with the EZSnsRF at all, but perhaps it was having communication issues as well?

[ergodic]

I have nothing but problems with CFLs and Insteon. I'd really love to know what brand you're using that don't give you problems as I have a number of applications here where I'd like to be able to install CFLs.

[MikeB]

I've been using cheap CFLs here in certain areas, nothing fancy. I believe they are Honeywell and Sylvania.

[jongig]

When our new house was done we had plenty of HD CFL's and they didn't work well and here in the Northeast they don't turn on outside in the winter and if they do they're a different color in the cold. I am friends with someone who owns a lighting company and he gave me lessons about CFl's and he gave me several to try and the ones I use here at the house mostly are TOPAZ CXL CF27/MS/41. They are 27 watt spiral commercial grade and 4,100 K. The light output is great and not one has failed. They also come on and look the same at temperatures below 0-F. I really didn't believe they'd start but they do.

 

He told me that he always gets companies that switch to save money but in the end they get beat up bad on labor costs for replacement and although they did cost more I am sure I made the right choice. If you want the name of the company just let me know because he sells everywhere and he does small and big orders.

 

john

[davidrule]

Hi,

 

Please can you send me the name of your friend's company? I've had no end of trouble with CFL bulbs and would like to try some TOPAZ bulbs to see if they help.

 

Thanks

David

[jongig]

The company is Biels Lighting and they are located here in Scranton PA. For contact information call Chrissy at 570-961-1819 and tell her John Giguere sent you. It probably doesn't matter if you use my name but they are insured with my agency and her father, Tommy, and I go way back.

 

I do recall that these bulbs come in different colors (Temperature K) and I really like the 4,100K because it is very white and looks really neat on the outside of the house. They also shine a good light that makes seeing the property with the video camera system pretty good. On the inside I've used different colors.

 

John