Using ISY 994i in a small commercial setting + USB PLM (what is this witchcraft?)

[Jamison_IO]

I recently opened a small business in a strip mall and I would like to use an ISY (I have had one at home for 6 or so years) to control my sign (120V) and add a keypad where they should have put three-way switches to the rest of the lighting. 

I went to buy my PLM, but see there is now a USB PLM in addition to the one I have.

What is the difference between the USB and the Ethernet PLM (other than the obvious connection)? Do I have to have a PC running all the time to use the USB, or does that connect to the ISY?

Will the ISY + PLM work in a commercial setting where I don't have control of other things that are connected to the electrical system? My location is very small, so coverage shouldn’t be a problem, but I wanted to check.

 

Thanks! 

 

[lilyoyo1]

The USB plm has always been around. It is not compatible with the Isy. Polisy is able to make use of the USB plm

[Brian H]

The 2413S PLM used with the ISY994i.  Is not an Ethernet module.

It is a RS232 Serial signal interface. Although the 2413S PLM has a RJ45 style jack on it as does the ISY994i. . A hold over from the earlier Smarthome products. The signals on it are RS232 Serial.

The signal pin outs are on the guide in the 2413S PLMs box.   Along with a RJ45 to DB9S cable.  Not used in the ISY994i setup.

The 2413U PLM you have seen. Is a PLM with a USB interface in it. It will not work with an ISY994i.

The 2413S has been out of stock for awhile now and electronic part shortages will probably have it out of stock in the near future. The 2413U may still be in stock for now. My thoughts are it was a slower seller and was still in stock.

[Jamison_IO]

1 hour ago, Brian H said:

Is not an Ethernet module.

I connect it with an ethernet cable, so I called it ethernet. 

1 hour ago, Brian H said:

The 2413U PLM you have seen. Is a PLM with a USB interface in it. It will not work with an ISY994i. 

This is what I needed, thank you. 

[Brian H]

Using an Ethernet type cable. Doing RS232 Serial is not a typical thing we see.  You are not alone in thinking it was Ethernet.

Unfortunately the 2413S is sold out. So you are not alone in trying to locate one.

Some have tried some workarounds with out much success. Like using the 2413U USB.  One user has used a Raspberry Pi and some converters to do it but it is not a simple plug and play thing.

[Jamison_IO]

Thanks for the info. That is discouraging re: the availability of the PLM that works with the ISY. I am glad I didn't order one today.

[Jamison_IO]

Are the ISY's usable without the PLM?

[lilyoyo1]

10 hours ago, Jamison_IO said:

Are the ISY's usable without the PLM?

It wouldn't work with insteon but would for zwave if you got the zwave version

[larryllix]

You could have problems with signal reliability depending on how large your store is and how the wiring is done.
Do you have a subpanel / breaker box for only your store?

[gviliunas]

Be sure to verify the voltage of the lighting. Some commercial lighting runs at 277V.

[MrBill]

14 hours ago, Jamison_IO said:

Are the ISY's usable without the PLM?

Another option that's in Alpha testing at the moment is "ISY on Polisy" which can use the USB PLM, however we don't know how far in the future this will be ready for production usage. 

We also don't know when smarthome will be restocked on serial PLM's.. it will be interesting to see how fast they sell out when they are restocked.

[Brian H]

It will be interesting. To see how long it is until the 2413S PLM is again in stock.

Or both the 2413S and 2413U are replaced with the new model in the FCC Database. Universal AC power, larger and faster Link Database , the serial version can supply voltage to run the ISY994i through the serial connector. Like the older 2412S could. Stronger power line transmitter and receiver. Better RF section.

[Jamison_IO]

5 hours ago, larryllix said:

You could have problems with signal reliability depending on how large your store is and how the wiring is done.
Do you have a subpanel / breaker box for only your store?

Not at the moment. It is shared with two other similarly sized (<1000 sq. ft.), but now vacant, spaces.

 

3 hours ago, gviliunas said:

Be sure to verify the voltage of the lighting. Some commercial lighting runs at 277V.

Yep. It is all 110V.

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, Brian H said:

It will be interesting. To see how long it is until the 2413S PLM is again in stock.

Or both the 2413S and 2413U are replaced with the new model in the FCC Database. Universal AC power, larger and faster Link Database , the serial version can supply voltage to run the ISY994i through the serial connector. Like the older 2412S could. Stronger power line transmitter and receiver. Better RF section.

I just discovered this treasure trove of old Developer Docs.  Thought you'd like to have the link,,, it's buried in a folder in the PyInsteon project on github.

[silverton38]

This is scary. I have a lot of customer homes with ISY and serial PLMs. If I have a failure, I will be in real trouble. I will now try to source them out Ebay and such. Scary. 

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, Brian H said:

It will be interesting. To see how long it is until the 2413S PLM is again in stock.

Or both the 2413S and 2413U are replaced with the new model in the FCC Database. Universal AC power, larger and faster Link Database , the serial version can supply voltage to run the ISY994i through the serial connector. Like the older 2412S could. Stronger power line transmitter and receiver. Better RF section.

The new version will not be out for quite some time. The new line will be built out before that's released

[silverton38]

Smarthome is making a huge mistake by not supporting and/or working with Universal Devices.

[lilyoyo1]

15 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

Smarthome is making a huge mistake by not supporting and/or working with Universal Devices.

Depends on ones perspective. There are lots of companies still in business that UDI doesn't support. 

One could argue that by focusing on building their own brand outside of the Isy by focusing on new customers, they give themselves the best chance to grow. 

At one point, the Isy was dependant on insteon. By branching out and supporting zwave and other stuff, the isy has been able to grow and stand on its own. The new line allows insteon to do the same. Grow their own name without the Isy. That way, should UDI choose to not support them, they'll still be ok. They can always come back later. 

Let's be real for a minute. Half hates insteon and the other half are already  entrenched in their systems. While some may try a few devices, you won't find many ripping out their whole system that's been working for them. 

 

[Jamison_IO]

Showing my ignorance on this topic, but are z-wave (and the others) devices able to be used without the PLM?

[lilyoyo1]

11 minutes ago, Jamison_IO said:

Showing my ignorance on this topic, but are z-wave (and the others) devices able to be used without the PLM?

Yes. Zwave is a different protocol and has its own board. 

[Jamison_IO]

So I can get an ISY and use only z-wave devices and be good to go?

[larryllix]

21 minutes ago, Jamison_IO said:

Showing my ignorance on this topic, but are z-wave (and the others) devices able to be used without the PLM?

ISY takes a Zwave interface instead of the Insteon PLM. It was a plug-inside board but not sure if another  dongle has become the latest interface or not.

Zwave may do better with shared wiring panels. Zwave is all RF comms. You may have to just try it, using enough devices as repeaters. Get advice from experienced people here for which devices support all the latest. Zwave has been through some cheap devices in the past.

Will you also have some WiFi/Router  for yourself? That could present some RGBCW bulbs that you can buy cheaply now for less than $10 each.

[Jamison_IO]

great info - thanks much!

[MrBill]

18 minutes ago, Jamison_IO said:

So I can get an ISY and use only z-wave devices and be good to go?

A great thread about z-wave to go read is this one from @lilyoyo1

 

[silverton38]

Z-wave is great but it is a little messy compared to Insteon on the ISY. I think Universal devices should make a new device with both Z-wave and Zigbee and program in the top brands of switches so it will look a lot more like it does with Insteon. I think it is time for a new ISY.