insteon signals over backup generator power

[bad144]

During power failures, I have a generac generator that supplies whole-house 120volts across both of my 2 phases. However, now that I've switched from x10 to insteon, I'm noticing that most (like 2 out of 3) of my insteon devices cannot hear each other, even when they are on the same circuit. This is a huge problem for me as many of my insteon devices are hardwired 3-way light switches.

 

When I turn on logging at the ISY PLM and press an insteon switchlinc, I may see the same 5 on or off signals transmitted, but nothing else (no response from the members of the scene). Or for other switches the PLM may see nothing. Or some scene members respond but still don't turn on/off.

 

Everything works fine when running on street power, so I suspect the problem is the generator is putting noise on the line. Or is it because the insteon devices can't handle the ac-voltage from the generator (that is not exactly sine-wave)? My cheaper APC UPSes don't like generator power; only the better ones with automatic voltage regulation work with the generator.

 

Is there a fix for this, like a whole-house noise filter?

[Brian H]

Could be noise or the modified sine wave is messing with the Insteon timing.

X10 times from the Zero Crossing of the AC power. At 120KHz.

Insteon starts their sending their 131.65KHz commands at 800 us before Zero Crossing. The only way I know of to do this is elapsed time from the previous Zero Crossing. The modified sine wave maybe altering the timing.

[Brignolo]

I had the same problem. It was "noise" in the form of fluctuating voltage.

 

I installed a whole house surge protector at the generator.

 

Cleaned things up and communications are back to normal.

 

Joe

[bad144]

I installed a whole house surge protector at the generator.

 

Cleaned things up and communications are back to normal.

 

Joe

Really, can you say which surge protector you got (like the leviton model that smarthome sells)? I'll run out and get one if that really fixes things. But I'd think that model would only deal with voltage spikes and wouldn't smooth out the voltage fluctuations from a generator. I'd hate to have an electrician install the surge protector and find that what I really needed was something like a whole house line conditioner instead.

 

Oh and what kind of generator did this work with? Mine is a ~1995 vintage generac which I think means it pre-dates their "TruePower Technology" that they say provides "consistent, stable power output".

[bad144]

Could be noise or the modified sine wave is messing with the Insteon timing.

X10 times from the Zero Crossing of the AC power. At 120KHz.

Insteon starts their sending their 131.65KHz commands at 800 us before Zero Crossing. The only way I know of to do this is elapsed time from the previous Zero Crossing. The modified sine wave maybe altering the timing.

I think, but don't have an oscilloscope to actually measure myself, that the generac is just putting out more of a square-shaped wave instead of a clean sine wave. I measured the frequency with a kill-a-watt and it was showing approx. 61hz+/-.2hz. So not quite standard frequency but is that what would make the insteon devices not hear each other?

 

If timing was the issue, I'd think I'd have seen devices that would sometimes hear each other. Instead I had devices that wouldn't hear each other on every try, unless the devices were "close" to each other on the circuits.

[Brian H]

If they only hear each other when real close. You maybe correct on the noise being the problem.

 

Don't know how tight the timing is. So 61 Hz can't say.

[Brignolo]

I installed a whole house surge protector at the generator.

 

Cleaned things up and communications are back to normal.

 

Joe

Really, can you say which surge protector you got (like the leviton model that smarthome sells)? I'll run out and get one if that really fixes things. But I'd think that model would only deal with voltage spikes and wouldn't smooth out the voltage fluctuations from a generator. I'd hate to have an electrician install the surge protector and find that what I really needed was something like a whole house line conditioner instead.

 

Oh and what kind of generator did this work with? Mine is a ~1995 vintage generac which I think means it pre-dates their "TruePower Technology" that they say provides "consistent, stable power output".

 

I installed a Panamax GPP8005 Max¨ Service Entrance Protector which I purchased from Amazon and it seemed to do the trick. I must mention that I do have my ISY powered by a wall wart which is plugged into an UPS which is a huge help.

 

The generator is a Briggs and Stratton EXL 8000 I bought in early 2007. As long as I turn off my hot tub, don't use the electric oven, or the heat pump, I'm good.

 

Joe

[bad144]

I installed a whole house surge protector at the generator.

 

Cleaned things up and communications are back to normal.

Thanks for the data point. That looks like a pretty simple surge suppressor that doesn't do extras such as noise filtering (like the leviton 42000), so I still don't get how it helps your case.

I asked on a generac forum, and was told there that a surge suppressor wouldn't help for my generator.

 

Wish I could get precise requirements for insteon as trial&error with an electrician is not cost effective.