Dimmable cfl?

[Harold]

I have a bunch of outdoor "security" lights. Normally They do not need to generate a whole lot of light. They are fixtures with two normal bulbs. I am currently using regular old cfl bulbs.

 

What I want to do is move to Insteon control and run them at a low level (i.e. dimmed) and brighten them up when motion is detected. This seemed like a good idea until I priced dimmable cfls. I have seen a post on this site saying GE makes good dimmable cfls that work with Insteon. They are a bit pricey. I need about 30 bulbs to populate all the fixtures with two bulbs each (yeah, I know, but wife (i.e. WAF)♦ requires balanced appearance of both bulbs - and hey, it is fail safe redundancy).

 

Has anyone found a cheaper dimmable cfl that has good lifetime and does not cause problems for the Insteon dimmers and network?

 

Right now I have the whole house populated with bulbs I got for $0.19 at Walgreens. Obviously i am going to have to spend a bit more for dimmable. But quite frankly, being a EE I do not see a real big reason why dimmables have to be so much more expensive.

[someguy]

I use CFL's in my outside lights and I have a couple of comments:

 

1) Some CFL's aren't supposed to be used in extremely cold or warm temperatures. Cold is an issue only for some people, but the warm temps are an issue when the light bulb is in an enclosed fixture or in a "can" light. I have had good luck with lightbulbs in a fixture that is not enclosed, but I noticed a short life-span of my can lights until I switched to a special outdoor bulb. If you want the brand/model, I can provide that.

 

2) When you consider the amount of cost-savings that you have with electricity for a regular CFL (use about 25% of the electricity), I is really worth it to spend 4x the amount of money on the bulb to be able to dim the light some? I'd say not... but I suppose the less electricity you use, the better... just consider that you might spend 4x (or more) for a bulb that may not have a long life, when used in extreme temps.

 

Best of luck and be sure to post how it turns out.

 

someguy

[Harold]

It is actually somewhat about keeping the light level down. I live in a moderately populated but rural area. There is a certain amount of activity and complaining about not keeping the sky dark. When I started building, I put up a sodium light and I am happy with that. Some neighbors are not.

 

I would like some light all the time, but the amount of light from the exterior lights is too much, and in some of the wrong places for us. So keeping on a minimal level and brightening on motion or command ♦is the approach I want to take.

 

The lamp holders are very well ventilated. I do not anticipate a thermal problem. I intend to turn them on at full, wait a few minutes, and then take them down to a minimal level. This should deal with cold weather starts.

 

Please tell me the brand/type you talked about. Never too much information.

[Brian H]

Most of the dimmable CFL bulbs I have tried are not linear. Many like to be started at 100% and then dimmed down. Some pulse when near their lowest setting before just going out.

 

I have played with CCFL {Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp} bulbs. They seem to dim better. Are even more expensive than Dimmable CFL and only in lower wattages.

 

I have taken CFL and Dimmable CFL bulbs apart. There is more electronics in a dimmable one. Not that the added parts cost that much extra.

[intellihome]

Most of the dimmable CFL bulbs I have tried are not linear. Many like to be started at 100% and then dimmed down. Some pulse when near their lowest setting before just going out.

 

I also have had issues with dimmable CFL's (both GE and e-lightbulb) in regards to linear scaling.

 

With a setting of 50% on two of the same brand and wattage bulbs, I "sometimes" get a different level (one bulb looks brighter then the other.

 

The other thing with CFL's is (in my experience) they don't last as long as advertised. I have since went back to regular incandescent bulbs where I can set all the on-levels and fades I desire. My switches are too expensive to not utilize their functions fully. "Everything nice...costs more" (unfortunately)

[someguy]

the outdoor bulb that I mentioned above is a:

 

Philips Marathon bulb. 15W (plastic enclosed CFL). It says "Ideal for heavily used table lamps, open or enclosed fixture and weather-protected outdoor fixtures".... interesting that there is no model number listed on the box, though

 

box does say 813334 82 cri 2700K -22F to 140F

UPC is: 46677 13786

 

I paid $12.00 for it from www.efi.org (I have no affiliation with them) about two years ago. not sure if this bulb is still available.

[Illusion]

Personally, I would not touch CFLs for outdoor security lighting. They take way to long to come up to full brightness on a cold night. They are just too temperature sensitive of a device for me to use in an outdoor setting unless they are going to be on for long periods of time and can achieve temperature stability. Your goal of dim always and bright on motion I fear excludes CFLs.

 

A halogen floodlight on dim setting provides a very nice warm pleasing glow that is ready to come to full in an instant. Life span is extreme when run in dim mode. I have two floodlight that are on all hours of darkness in a dim mode. They have been running that way for 16 years without need of maintenance.

 

Some applications call for incandescent lighting. I think this is one of them. Avoid the hassle of CFLs in this application. The cons [high cost, disappointing lifespan, line noise, dim when cold, special programming to get a hot start and then dim, non linear dimming, variances between bulbs] just way outweigh the pros. IMHO.

[IndyMike]

Hello Harold,

 

If I were to give one piece of advice on the use of dimmable CFLs, it would be to proceed cautiously.

 

As others have indicated, you will not get anywhere near the incandescent dimming range with a CFL. I've tested a number of manufacturers and have found most of their claims to be optomistic.

 

Noise injected into the powerline tends to increase as a CFL is dimmed. One of the brands that I tested injected 22V spikes into the Line at low dim levels. The noise also tends to "crowd" the zero crossing where the Insteon transmissions occur. This results in "loss of control" of the Insteon dimmer connected to the CFL.

 

I've been using Neptune dimmable CFL's in my outdoor fixture for around a year now. These were the least objectionable of the brands that I had tested (lowest noise). I currently have the lamps set to dim to 40% after 10:00 PM. This is the lowest level that I can attain reliably without inducing communication problems with the Insteon dimmer. Actual reduction in the lamp output is, I would guess, on the order of 20% (hardly noticeable).

 

Before investing a lot of money, I would strongly suggest that you "test drive" some lamps in a less noticeable location.

[Harold]

Thanks for all the replies. I am also considering a filament alternative. The outside light fixtures have been using cfls for several years and I have been happy with their operation. Not dimmable, of course.

 

My intent is to try out some bulbs. I built a simple test box so I can easily attach a controller and plug in a test load to play with things on the bench.

 

I am trying to find a good dimmable cfl to start with. i had concerns about the amount of light provided by a dimmable at the lowest reliable setting. If it does not dim enough, it will not meet my needs.

 

These are not "security" lights in the sense that they don't work to blind someone if they move. Mostly they are for us to see what we are doing. The low level operation would let me see outside without something tripping a motion sensor. If they were on at low power, I would also expect the switch to full power would happen much faster that from a cold start. Even from a cold start, the cfls are sufficient for the outside use.

 

At some point I may add a couple of floods that would be off and light on motion.

[picc02766]

If you don't need a lot of light I have had excellent results with the CCFL's (Cold Cathode) from home depot. The last time I checked they come in 15W equivalent (3W) for about $4 and a 2 pack of 25W equivalent (5W) for about $9.

 

Soft White color temp. Brand is EcoSmart - they come in a blister pack with green colored labeling.

 

These are candelabra base but come with a standard base adapter.

 

I use them as sconce lights for the front, side and garage doors. Plenty bright for that application , especially the 5W model. Typically I do not dim them but they are dimmable - as others have said they can not be dimmed to extremely low levels like an incandescent.

 

They are more tolerant of the cold and seem to "warm up" much more quickly than a regular CFL. And FWIW they do claim a 9 year "life". I have been running 14 of these these for about a year and have had only one failure (HD replaced it).

 

I also use these indoors with very good success as mood lamps. I have 6 mica sconce fixtures that were running with 2x 40W incandescent bulbs each dimmed to about 50% - replaced with the CCFL's at 3W each and get the same effect with a major power savings.