994i to eisy considerations?

[AllDigital]

I've got a pretty substantial ISY 994i + Insteon home automation system and I'm considering the upgrade to the eisy, so I can start to expand using the new zwave 700 series components. Specifically, I need to add another five motion sensors in my backyard and the Insteon range isn't workable, so I am evaluating other options (hardwire + I/O, zwave, etc.). I have a new eisy in the box here and the zwave board on the way, but as I started to read through the forum on other 994i upgrades I am getting cold feet. Here is my current footprint (somewhat dated, since I haven't touched it in years):

• ISY 994i (1120) running 5.0.16
• 55 custom programs / 59 variables
• Dual-band PLM 2413S
• 36 Insteon devices (switches, motion, thermostats, I/O lincs, siren, extenders, etc)
• Elk Integration (all zones, voice/speak/siren)
• Ring node server
• Seven network resources
• UDI Portal integration
• email notifications w/20+ customizations
• MobiLinc Pro iOS app

I am not using any of the energy features or older zwave tech. 

From what I've read, it seems like most of my system should port over to the eisy, but I am concerned about the Elk integration. I use the ISY as a "passive" alarm system when the Elk isn't armed and I use the Elk voice/speak features for lots of notifications in the house (eg, says "doorbell" when someone rings the doorbell). Will all the functionality come over and/or will I need to re-write all the programs?

If it is going to be a massive lift to port everything and then I am left with big gaps in functionality, I might just stay on the 994i longer and solve my immediate needs with more Insteon gear.

Let me know what you think. If I do take the plunge, I'll be sure to share the journey.

Thanks,

-Mike

[firstone]

Before we start, I hope you've ordered USB ZMatter, as I believe board will not work with eisy.

I was in a similar scenario as you but performed upgrade from ISY to Isy on Polisy with ZMatter USB two days ago. While my ISY is only about 3 years old, I've seen some weird errors while trying to save programs. Something like DHCP error. Seems not related and garbage. Also, was getting scared I might lose PLM. I have 2 usb PLMs (although old) and wanted backup until Insteon catches up.

Upgrade was mostly painless:
 

• Backed up ISY
• Unplugged it
• Plugged serial PLM with original serial cable (luckily I found 3 from old days)
• Plugged ZMatter USB via active USB extension cable and placed it in the ceiling box for better reception
• Enabled Z-Wave and Insteon
• Switched Z-Wave to ZMatter
• Added new box in portal with trial license
• Authorized it in Admin console
• Transferred set up and license from ISY to polisy in Portal

Insteon started working right away. All program were there.

• Z-Wave had to be added by hand. But was able to add pretty much all devices where they are. Including my Schlage locks. Those paired, prompted for S2 DSK keys and added just fine. Previously, they had to be in the room next to ISY to be paired.
• My outdoor GE/Enbright outlets also added fine, prompted for S2 DSK.
• All my Bali blinds (Somfy motors) added fine as well.  
• The only issue I've had were Aeon TriSensors - those appear to be PITA to operate. 

 

For your particular set up:

• Programs, variables, PLM, Insteon stuff should work.
• Don't know much about ELK. I have ELK alarm but not connected to ISY.
• Network resources should transfer if they're outgoing network resources. But if IP changes or you're trying to access node that has address changed, you'll need to adjust.
• Node Servers - you're not specifying where they're running right now. ISY backup/restore will transfer node server stuff on ISY side but that doesn't mean much. You'd have to transfer polyglot DB. Not sure if there's procedure for that. I'd recommend just remove node servers prior to migration. And re-install them on eisy. You might need to update the programs and scenes to add node server nodes after this though. 
• For portal transfer, everything should mostly work. But a particular node changes - new zwave node address or different node server node address - those need to be recreated. 

The last 2 items are a chunk of work but I'm very happy with the result. Especially ZMatter adapter. I feel like ZWave support is "production ready" now. I've never felt that way about isy zwave. 

[firstone]

Once more thing - if network resources are pointing to ISY itself, they need to change. On 994 it was http://localhost:80. On polisy and probably eisy it's https://localhost:8443. And "Use SNI" box has to be checked. Also, for ZMatter rest path changed from /rest/zwave to /rest/zmatter/zwave.

Edited January 4, 2023 by firstone

[AllDigital]

Ok, I have just reached the other side of the chasm, so I thought I'd share my experience making the transition from the ISY994i to EISY. 

TLDR - SUMMARY

My upgrade went great. It wasn’t without some snags and frustrations, but everything works well for me except a lag time when sending commands to my Elk M1G. My original 994i included a lot of Insteon devices (switches, I/O, motion, thermostats, etc), as well as an Elk system, Ring integration, network resources, and more.  After my migration, I added z-wave/matter and tried some 700 series devices and wow the range is amazing. Below is my experience:

BACK-UP and RESTORE

I upgraded the firmware on my ISY and on the new EISY. I then did a light housecleaning on my ISY to remove old devices, programs, variables, and other things not in use. I backed up the final "golden" version. 

On the EISY the restore of the back-up went pretty well, although I did need to reset/reboot a few times to get everything to show up properly. All my Insteon devices came over, along with all my programs, network resources, etc.  The programs that referenced the Elk module all appeared in yellow and had to be edited later. I powered down the EISY, connected my old Insteon PLM, plugged in the PLM to the EISY (using the official cables/adapter) and then powered up the EISY. All the Insteon devices connected correctly the first time. As a note, you really do need the official RS232 cable/adapter for the EISY. The PLMs have a proprietary RJ45 wiring scheme and I'm pretty sure the EISY depends on the prolific USB chipset to match with the correct driver. 

I also tested email notifications, thermostats, and other basic features and I was impressed at how much transferred without issue.

PG3 SETUP

After I did the restore, I changed the admin password and then went to work on the PG3 setup. Getting PG3 set up so I could buy a Node Server was messy. The EISY needs to be set up correctly in the ISY Portal first, before you can buy anything. My ISY994i was already set up in the portal, so I had to add my EISY UUID manually. After I added it I still couldn't get it to work with PG3 and I couldn't transfer the license from my 994i to the EISY. It turns out, I had to enroll the EISY that I had manually added in a 30 day free trial license. That allowed me to approve it in the EISY admin console and then transfer the 994i license to the EISY.  NOTE: This is a "point of no return”, since I couldn't easily roll-back to the 994i after making this license move -- a leap of faith, since I wasn't sure if the Elk NS and other integrations would work. Also Note, the login and authentication to PG3 web interface is really messy, at least on a Mac. Every time I went to PG3 I needed to log into the ISY Portal and then log into PG3, sometimes it required one or the other login twice. PG3 relies on the ISY Portal, so just know you have two layers of login to do. 

ELK SETUP

After PG3 was set up I was able to buy and then configure the Elk NS. The configuration was straight forward in PG3 but it took a while to import all the Elk internal setup.  I think I power cycled the EISY and then went into the admin console. It took a while to process all the Elk configurations the first time, but once it was done it showed as a device and everything was there in perfect order. I was able to edit all my programs that used Elk to adapt to the new Node Server instead of the old Elk Module. NOTE: The 994i restore blanks out all the Elk lines in programs, so make sure you know what you need to edit in each program. Overall, even with 20+ programs to edit it was pretty easy. The only substantial issue was there is a delay (10-30 seconds) when issuing commands to the Elk system. That is causing me issue with some automations, but hopefully it gets fixed soon.

RING INTEGRATION

I use IFTTT Webhooks and the ISY Portal for my Ring doorbell integration. After I did the license migration the Ring integration did not work. The Ring-to-IFTTT-ISY Portal isn’t a complicated set up, but for some reason this caused me the most hassle. I ended up deleting all the old Webhooks and recreating everything from scratch and it still didn’t work. I had issue with IFTTT getting notified from Ring, which is strange since none of that was involved in the EISY transfer. Ultimately, I found that if I set up a IFTTT webhook for Ring Motion it started working and then I was able to use the Ring Doorbell event. There is no reason this part should have broken during upgrade, except I went in to edit the IFTTT webhook to ISY Portal. Somewhere on the interweb I found a note that said setting up a motion event webhook with Ring first allowed the doorbell events to start working (ugh!).

NETWORK RESOURCES

I have a number of very simple network resources that make html GET calls to a Raspberry Pi. I knew I had to go in and edit these, but after I edited and saved them they still did not work. I could initiate them just fine from a browser, but not from a program. I edited, updated, and saved them six different ways and power cycled the box at least three times and eventually they just started working. I’m not sure why network resources need to be edited and/or why they are problematic, but eventually they started working with no material difference (timeouts, URLs, etc.) then the original network resources.

MOBILE APP

I had been using MobiLinc Pro with my ISY 994i which required ports to be open in my router. I decided to move over to UD Mobile and I am very happy with the interface and functionality. I can still access all my devices, programs, thermostats, etc. and I don’t need the extra port open. It does require the ISY Portal license, but I’m already there for my Ring Doorbell integration and I’m happy to pay $10/year if it will help keep this platform viable.

Z-WAVE / MATTER

The whole reason I upgraded from the 994i was to give me more options on devices. Honestly, after getting the baseline 994i to EISY upgraded, I don’t see a lot of (any?) real advantage in speed or UI as compared to the 994i. I know the queries are faster, but there really would be no reason for me to upgrade just to upgrade my current system.

In my situation, I need to add a lot more devices far away in my backyard (motion, relays, etc.). The 700 series z-wave interested me and the future of Matter also interests me. As it turns out, there are not yet a lot of 700 series z-wave devices and using just one 500 series device will just slow the entire network, so options are limited. But there are options. Today I tested a Zooz 700 series relay to gauge usable distance. I was sure I was going to need to add extra antennas to the Matter board and a few 700 Series repeaters to reach the far end of my backyard. My EISY is inside my office at home and to get to the backyard the signal needs to go through three inside rooms and the 125 feet to the end of my backyard. It worked flawlessly and reliably on the first try. So, I moved it to the far end of my house deep on the floor of my garage and it also worked. Then I moved it to my neighbors and it also worked - all without a second z-wave node on the network. So, wow!  I’m sold on the 700 series z-wave, at least for now. I’ll try some more devices, but this is very different from my old z-wave experience and my Insteon experience. I can barely get Insteon RF signals to go 20 feet or through a few walls.

 

Thank you to everyone for sharing your experience on this forum. It has all been very helpful.

Happy migrating!

 

[AllDigital]

One last update... The ELK commands/speak delay is now fixed in the current PG3 Elk Node Server, so I am 100% back to where I was with the 994i and well beyond with the new z-wave 700 devices. No regrets.