Motion sensor settings question.

[fitzpatri8]

Go to the Programs tab, select New Folder, name it Backyard Motion, then add the schedule From Sunrise to Sunset to the folder's IF trigger.

 

Now click on New Program and name it Motion Sensed. It will place the new program within the new folder you just created. Click the Condition button, change the Status drop-down to Control, then choose the first backyard motion sensor and On. Click the Add to If button.

 

Now, leaving everything else the same, change the device to the second motion sensor, then click Add to If.

 

Now click the Action button, choose the scene you want to turn on, and Add to Then. Change the On to Off and click Add to Then.

 

Now click on the Insteon drop-down and choose Wait. Select 5 minutes, then Add to Then. Now, mid-screen, click the button that says Move Line Up. That finishes the first program.

 

Next, click on New Program and name it Off at Sunrise. Click on the Time dropdown and change it to Sunrise. Click the After dropdown and change it to Before. Click the up arrow to change it to 2 seconds, then click Add to If.

 

Click the Actions button, select your scene and Off, then Add to Then.

 

Click on My Programs, then click the Save button.

 

Lastly, you'll need to delete whatever programs you previously wrote for backyard motion control to avoid any conflicts.

[ingeborgdot]

Here is what I just got done writing before you wrote to me. I put it in a folder and wrote 5 programs. I will have to check to see if it works.

A1. BackYard Motion Sensed

If

From Sunset

To Sunrise (next day)

And Control 'MS Garage' is switched On

And Control 'MS House' is switched On

And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On

And Status 'Garage Light' is not On

And Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' is False

 

Then

Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes

If

- No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

 

Then

Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On

Wait 3 minutes

Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' Off

Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Else Path)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Turns backyard lights on for 3 minutes. A program is used such that the 'wait' is not reinitialized by new events triggering 'If conditions'.

 

A3. BackYard Lights Switched On

If

Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched On

And Control 'Garage Light' is switched On

 

Then

Stop program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'

Enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'

Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Else Path)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

This programs returns control to motion sensor and reinstialzes the condition logic flags. Run prgram (else path) to reset the motion on/off flag.

A4. BackYard Lights Switched Off

If

Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Off

And Control 'Garage Light' is switched Off

 

Then

Stop program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'

Disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'

Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Else Path)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Double tap (off) disables the motion sensor such that the porch light stays off until the switch is manually turned on again. Purpose of the 'Run Program' (else path) is the reset the motion on/off flag.

A5. BackYard Lights Daily Reset

If

Time is Sunrise + 30 minutes

 

Then

Set 'Back Porch Light' Off

Set 'Garage Light' Off

Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Else Path)

Enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Turns off backyard lights 30 minutes after dawn and resets the program flags in case the lights were manually overridden and left on all night.

 

What does this look like to people?

[fitzpatri8]

I'll start the ball rolling by pointing out program 1 won't ever run because two CONTROL triggers are joined by an AND. Even if you press two buttons at the same time, one signal will arrive before the other and cause the program to evaluate as FALSE.

[oberkc]

I see a problem with your first program, at least. For it to ever be true, ALL conditions must by simultaneously true (because of the AND statements). I doubt this will ever happen. I suggest the following changes to your first program, at least:

 

If
From Sunset
To Sunrise (next day)
And 
(
Control 'MS Garage' is switched On
or 
Control 'MS House' is switched On
)
And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On
And Status 'Garage Light' is not On
And Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' is False

Then
Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path)

Else
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

Regarding program 4, it appears to me this one will rarely evaluate as true, since both controls must occur simultaneously (very unlikely). Furthermore, if it did evaluate as true, it would disable your motion sensor program. What is the purpose of this? Given your description (double tap disables the motion sensor), perhaps you would be better with:

 

If
Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched fast Off <<<"fast off" is double tap
or Control 'Garage Light' is switched fast Off <<< "or" allow either condition down "then" path

Then
Stop program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'
Disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'
Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Else Path)

Else
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

I also wonder what devices are in your scene 'BackYard Lighting'

[ingeborgdot]

The back door light and garage light are in my scene.

[ingeborgdot]

oberkc, what would you do? Would you make a folder? Do you have an alternative to what I have? Thanks.

[ingeborgdot]

Well, here is where my ignorance comes to play. After re doing all of what you see, do I need to go to my ms and reset it?

[oberkc]

I would start off by defining, in english, what it is you want a program(s) to do, such as:

 

a. motion from either of two sensors, A and B, triggers both lights, X, and Y, to come on for three minutes, then turn off.

b. any new motion sensed restarts three-minute clock

c. motion-triggered lights are active only between sunset and sunrise

d. if either of the two lights are manually activated, they will remain on, indefinitely, until manually shut off.

e. both lights will turn off automatically at 30 minutes past dawn, each day, regardless of how activated.

f. double tap (fast off) will disable motion-triggered lights.

 

Please modify and augment, as necessary. I consider it bad practice to program before having a complete understanding of requirements.

 

After re doing all of what you see, do I need to go to my ms and reset it?

 

No, unless you have included the MS in a scene.

[ingeborgdot]

a. yes

b. yes

c. yes

d. yes

e. yes

f. yes

 

Sorry about bad practices.

[oberkc]

I think, actually, you are pretty close with your attempt. Please confirm which program is "A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes" and which is 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'.

 

Please, also, confirm that none of your devices are in any scenes.

[ingeborgdot]

Go back up and look at the folder that I previously stated. I edited with more info about program #s. Is that what you mean????

[ingeborgdot]

I think, actually, you are pretty close with your attempt. Please confirm which program is "A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes" and which is 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'.

 

Please, also, confirm that none of your devices are in any scenes.

 

My two switches are in a scene. Nothing else. My back porch light, and garage light are the two lights that are controlled.

[oberkc]

Is that what you mean????

 

I may be overlooking it, but I see five programs, labeled programs 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. I see no program labeled "A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes" or 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'.

 

The back door light and garage light are in my scene.

 

I see no device in your program called "back door light"

 

I put it in a folder and wrote 5 programs.

 

What are the folder conditions?

[ingeborgdot]

I relabeled the programs for you.

[ingeborgdot]

Is that what you mean????

 

I may be overlooking it, but I see five programs, labeled programs 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. I see no program labeled "A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes" or 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'.

 

The back door light and garage light are in my scene.

 

I see no device in your program called "back door light"

 

I put it in a folder and wrote 5 programs.

 

What are the folder conditions?

 

My bad, I meant back porch light.

 

Conditions?

[oberkc]

I made suggestions, based on your programs. First, I see no reason to put it in a folder if you have no folder conditions. Take the programs out of the folder.

 

The rest, I will modify your programs:

 

A1. BackYard Motion Sensed - this program, when enabled, will sense motion, and call for the timer program.

 

If 
From Sunset 
To Sunrise (next day) 
And 
(
Control 'MS Garage' is switched On 
or
Control 'MS House' is switched On 
)
And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On 
And Status 'Garage Light' is not On 

Then 
Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path) 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes - this program is called by the A1 motion sense program and turns the lights on, waits three minutes, then turns them off

 

If 
- No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') 

Then 
Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On 
Wait 3 minutes 
Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' Off 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

A3. BackYard Lights Switched On - this program watches for EITHER of the two light switches to be turned on. If so, it will stop any active timer program and disable the sense program

 

If 
Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched On 
or
Control 'Garage Light' is switched On 

Then 
Stop program 'BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes'
disable  Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

A4. BackYard Lights Switched Off - this program watches for either of the two lights to be turned off, at which point it will re-enable the a1 motion sense program

 

If 
Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Off 
or
Control 'Garage Light' is switched Off 

Then 
enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

A5. BackYard Lights Daily Reset - turns lights off at 30 minutes past dawn. I left the enable program in, just in case it has been disabled by manual action

If 
Time is Sunrise + 30 minutes 

Then 
Set 'Back Porch Light' Off 
Set 'Garage Light' Off 
Enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

A6 - motion disable - this program watches for the double-tap and disables motion in response.

 

If 
Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched fast Off 
or
Control 'Garage Light' is switched fast Off 

Then 
disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

I am sure that there are many ways to code this. I would also be surprised if there was not at least one error in there. Feel free to give it a try and identify where it does not meet your stated requirements.

[oberkc]

I made suggestions, based on your programs.

 

Conditions?

First, I see no reason to put it in a folder if you have no folder conditions. Take the programs out of the folder.

 

The rest, I will modify your programs:

 

A1. BackYard Motion Sensed - this program, when enabled, will sense motion, and call for the timer program.

 

If 
From Sunset 
To Sunrise (next day) 
And 
(
Control 'MS Garage' is switched On 
or
Control 'MS House' is switched On 
)
And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On 
And Status 'Garage Light' is not On 

Then 
Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path) 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes - this program is called by the A1 motion sense program and turns the lights on, waits three minutes, then turns them off

 

If 
- No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') 

Then 
Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On 
Wait 3 minutes 
Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' Off 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

A3. BackYard Lights Switched On - this program watches for EITHER of the two light switches to be turned on. If so, it will stop any active timer program and disable the sense program

 

If 
Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched On 
or
Control 'Garage Light' is switched On 

Then 
Stop program 'BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes'
disable  Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

A4. BackYard Lights Switched Off - this program watches for either of the two lights to be turned off, at which point it will re-enable the a1 motion sense program

 

If 
Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Off 
or
Control 'Garage Light' is switched Off 

Then 
enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

A5. BackYard Lights Daily Reset - turns lights off at 30 minutes past dawn. I left the enable program in, just in case it has been disabled by manual action

If 
Time is Sunrise + 30 minutes 

Then 
Set 'Back Porch Light' Off 
Set 'Garage Light' Off 
Enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

A6 - motion disable - this program watches for the double-tap and disables motion in response.

 

If 
Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched fast Off 
or
Control 'Garage Light' is switched fast Off 

Then 
disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' 

Else 
- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 

 

I am sure that there are many ways to code this. I would also be surprised if there was not at least one error in there. Feel free to give it a try and identify where it does not meet your stated requirements.

[ingeborgdot]

I may try it but what if the program that I used is running without any problems. It stays off during the day now. It turns on when it is supposed to. I don't know but it works right now.

[ingeborgdot]

Do crazy things happen sometimes where you have a program that has been working for a couple of months and then one day it stops working. Everything else works fine but this one program quits. I tried redoing the program and I kept getting error messages. I then deleted the programming for it only to have it come back when I restarted the isy. I will find out tonight if the program works again.

Can I check it with a scene test?

[LeeG]

The Save Changes button was not used after deleting the Program. That is why it came back after a restart.

 

Crazy things, error messages, stops working, not enough information to even offer a guess.

[ingeborgdot]

Well, my backyard sensor lights just quit working the other day. The sensors would blink red but nothing would happen. I went and checked on the isy to make sure it was all okay and the programming looked all in tact. I was then going to make some changes and some error messages came up on the screen of the isy and it would not let me make any changes. I can't remember what the error messages said and I did not write them down but now I can go in a make any changes I want without any error message so something has corrected itself. To me that is kind of crazy. I wish I could give you more info but I was in a hurry and did not have time to write down the error message.

[LeeG]

When the problem comes back, does the Event Viewer trace with Device Communications Events show Insteon activity when the motion sensor blinks its Red LED (have to wait for a timeout value to elapse as the motion sensor will not send On commands while in the timeout interval even thought the Red LED blinks). There is no timeout interval when operating in Occupancy mode.

 

Issues with the Venstar adaptor can prevent RF traffic from reaching the ISY.

 

Not disagreeing with the crazy conclusion or any of the rest, it may even help relieve the frustration with the situation but it does not contribute to finding the solution.

[ingeborgdot]

I have the venstart adapter. How do I fix this if this is the problem?

[LeeG]

For now unplug the dongle (adaptor) for 1 minute when the motion sensors stop working. There is a working theory that the dongle is broadcasting something on RF, either message or simply a carrier, that is blocking the RF transmissions of other RF devices such as motion sensors. Smarthome/Smartlabs is testing a new version of the dongle. No estimate on when that will be available to the general public or how the existing adaptors will be replaced.

 

This is only one possibility causing the motion sensors from working but unplugging the adaptor(s) will resolve the problem if caused by the adaptor.

[oberkc]

Do crazy things happen sometimes where you have a program that has been working for a couple of months and then one day it stops working.

 

I believe it to be extremely unlikely that a program, once working, stops. More likely it that something is interfering with communication. Either a trigger event is not reaching the PLM, or the programmed response is not reaching the affected devices.