Want to trigger a Google routine

[xlurkr]

Could one of you smart people walk me through how to set up a Google Home routine to be triggered off an Insteon sensor?  I have everything set up for voice control in Google Home, but now I want to have a light come on when my entryway closet is opened.  It has no light, and the entryway light (Z-Wave) is controlled by another service (SmartRent - I live in an apartment and can't change the switch).  So I want to install either an Insteon open/close sensor (preferred) or motion sensor and have its state trigger a Google Home routine that turns on the SmartRent light and turns it off when the door closes or the motion times out.

It doesn't seem like the portal Google integration lets you designate a node as a sensor type.  Using an Insteon open/close sensor, I've tried "switch" and "open/close", but neither seems to create a Google Home device that has its state change when I trigger the sensor - though it does change state in the AC, so I know it's working.  Please help.

-Tom

[xlurkr]

Is it possible this isn't possible?  The Insteon website says MS and open/close sensors aren't supported in their Google Home integration for their hub.  But Google says motions are supported.  Depends on the service's implementation?

-Tom

[asbril]

I do not have Insteon, so keep that in mind   However, it should not matter if you go through IoX and ISY Portal account.  Others may chime in.

While I have both Google Home and Alexa, so far I have only implemented Alexa routines.

Edited April 10, 2023 by asbril

[MrBill]

14 hours ago, xlurkr said:

The Insteon website says MS and open/close sensors aren't supported in their Google Home integration for their hub.

that only applies if you're using an Insteon Hub.  Are you using an Insteon hub or an ISY/PLM?

I don't have google home, so that half of it I can't help with.

[xlurkr]

3 hours ago, MrBill said:

that only applies if you're using an Insteon Hub.

Yes, I'm aware.  But it's the only information that a Google search for "Insteon motion sensor google home" returned.  I took it as a sign that maybe it's impossible. or too hard, or not worth it, or something, to support these devices as triggers for routines in Google Home.  As an aside, I also have Lutron occupancy sensors, and they don't support them as devices in Google Home through their Connect Bridge either, as far as I have been able to determine.

Maybe it's time to tag someone like @bmercier.

-Tom

[xlurkr]

I have never seen Google be so unhelpful about...Google.  I can't find a list of devices that are supported in Google Home as triggers for routines, nor even any useful individuals reporting how they got a sensor to work as a trigger.  The closest thing, apparently, is someone reporting the use of Hue motion sensors.  Great.  I don't want to buy yet another motion sensor.  I don't even want to use an MS - I want to use an Insteon open/close, door/window, whatever you want to call it.  Can no one help me? @bmercier, where are you?

-Tom

[Geddy]

@xlurkr

Not sure how/if it can be done with Google Home, but know ages ago it was said to work with Alexa (as far as triggering a routine). What ISY device are you using (ISY994, Polisy, or eisy)? Could you add Z-Wave controller to your ISY and just control something that way? Maybe it's the SmartRent that's somehow blocking you.  -- see edit below!

 

Otherwise, maybe try some just straight up motion sensor bulbs. I know Govee used to have some, but what I got in the past isn't available now. They are indoor/outdoor and some do dusk to dawn and on with motion...if it's in a closet (and mostly at night) it should allow the light to turn on when the door is opened and should stay on at least a little while.

https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Sensor-Built-Equivalent-Bright/dp/B07F6HBLXC - similar to what I got for outside in the past. (Sadly, those motion sensors don't last long in Georgia heat & humidity)

 

Or something like this that's used for under cabinet lighting, but also could be used in a closet setting:

https://www.amazon.com/Lighting-Wireless-Rechargeable-Operated-Wardrobe/dp/B085PY9VYV/

(Use 3M command "tape" so not to leave any marks or permanent tape in the closet)

 

Edit: Reviewing some of the old post linked above and subsequent links found this post: (sure, it's from 2018, but didn't seem likely then...wonder if it's been made possible since)

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Geddy
added last link

[xlurkr]

Thanks for trying to help out Geddy.  It's a Polisy I have.  I don't think adding a Z-Wave MS to it would help, because the problem is in getting UDI's Google Home integration to allow me to identify a node as a sensor and having Google Home recognize that and allow me to use it to set up the trigger.  It doesn't matter what protocol is used in connecting the device to the Polisy.

I can't use a motion-controlled light because the light is outside the closet, in the entryway, and I only want to have it go on when I open the closet door, but also want to control it normally from the switch.  I could do that with a MS inside the closet, or an open/close sensor, which I'd prefer.

Google added the trigger capability in November of last year, so old posts aren't relevant.

I've attached the device categories for the Google Home integration.  None of them cause the device to show up as something that can trigger a routine, as far as I can tell.  The "open/close" one allows you to control it with those words - like a shade, for example.  But when I chose that for my sensor, its state didn't change in GH when I opened and closed the door.  Without changing state, it can't act as a trigger.

I guess I'm the only UDI customer who uses GH integration.  Guess I'd better not say that too loud, or they'll deprecate it.🤐

-Tom

[Geddy]

59 minutes ago, xlurkr said:

I guess I'm the only UDI customer who uses GH integration.  Guess I'd better not say that too loud, or they'll deprecate it.

HA!  Doubtful, but probably just one trying something like this recently. Yeah, not a GH user so can't help further. Just knew of the Alexa discussion from attempting to use something in that process a few years ago. 

Sorry, misunderstood the original problem/goal. I thought you wanted a light to come on in the closet not outside of the closet. Is there not a switch close by to just flip on when opening the closet door? Good luck with your endeavors.  👍

[asbril]

I have a few Alexa routines that are triggered when a specific IoX variable is set to 1.

Earlier today I tried to do the same with GH, but no success (so far).

Edited April 12, 2023 by asbril

[larryllix]

Just as a matter of interest...I have created a program that resets all my state variables used to trigger routines in my alexa speakers. It looks like this...

Program ResetSayVars (Enabled to Run at Startup]
if
    $sSayVVVVV is not 0
    OR
    $sSayWWWW is not 0 
    OR
    $sSayXXXXX is not 0 
    OR
    $sSayYYYYY is not 0 
Then
     Wait 3 seconds
     $sSayVVVVVVV = 0
     $sSayWWWWWW = 0
     $sSayXXXXXXX = 0
     $sSayYYYYYYY = 0
Else
       -----

Now when a program uses a $sSay variable the wait and reset to 0 is done automatically to reduce line usage in every programmed usage of vocals. This simplifies the number of lines and look of many programs and makes them easier to read. Of course I have a bank of about 20 State variables (with more meaningful variable names) reserved for this usage and the program involves every one in the If and Then sections of this program.

BTW: Alexa routines do not like to be hit on faster than every 20 seconds so programs that operate vocals too fast may get skipped over.

[asbril]

4 hours ago, larryllix said:

Just as a matter of interest...I have created a program that resets all my state variables used to trigger routines in my alexa speakers. It looks like this...

Program ResetSayVars (Enabled to Run at Startup]
if
    $sSayVVVVV is not 0
    OR
    $sSayWWWW is not 0 
    OR
    $sSayXXXXX is not 0 
    OR
    $sSayYYYYY is not 0 
Then
     Wait 3 seconds
     $sSayVVVVVVV = 0
     $sSayWWWWWW = 0
     $sSayXXXXXXX = 0
     $sSayYYYYYYY = 0
Else
       -----

Now when a program uses a $sSay variable the wait and reset to 0 is done automatically to reduce line usage in every programmed usage of vocals. This simplifies the number of lines and look of many programs and makes them easier to read. Of course I have a bank of about 20 State variables (with more meaningful variable names) reserved for this usage and the program involves every one in the If and Then sections of this program.

BTW: Alexa routines do not like to be hit on faster than every 20 seconds so programs that operate vocals too fast may get skipped over.

Interesting, but I am not sure that I need this.

I have 4 Alexa voice routines that run as part of wake-up programs (*).  The same  IoX programs that set the relevant variable to 1, do  set the variable back to 0 after a few minutes. Would I need your program as well ?

 

(*) these wake-up programs themelves are initiated by events in Google Calendar

[xlurkr]

You guys are torturing me with your success stories with Alexa.

-Tom

[asbril]

2 hours ago, xlurkr said:

You guys are torturing me with your success stories with Alexa.

-Tom

Is there anything I can help with ?

[larryllix]

17 hours ago, asbril said:

Interesting, but I am not sure that I need this.

I have 4 Alexa voice routines that run as part of wake-up programs (*).  The same  IoX programs that set the relevant variable to 1, do  set the variable back to 0 after a few minutes. Would I need your program as well ?

 

(*) these wake-up programs themelves are initiated by events in Google Calendar

There is no need for this program but is simplifies the programs that use it. I reserved about 20 variables for vocal outputs and a program to reset them all. I never have to use three lines per program anymore, making them easier to read and understand after that. Better programming practices mostly means easier to read and understand programs for any later corrections or edits.

It's aso about centralisation of functions instead of scrambled all over the place and hard to find later. If the timing requirement ever changes, one simple change will do it all.

[larryllix]

13 hours ago, xlurkr said:

You guys are torturing me with your success stories with Alexa.

-Tom

I had always thought GH supported the same style of things as Alexa. I have four GH boxes in a box somewhere. I found Google's attempt at so-called AI a detriment to HA controls with it's assumptions operating things I didn't want operated, so I focused on all Alexa speakers. Of course, things may have changed as GH realised the error of some of their ways.

[xlurkr]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:40 PM, asbril said:

Is there anything I can help with ?

Nothing, other than return here and update if you find a way to make it work.  Thanks for trying.

This isn't urgent, merely frustrating.  And I could use Alexa; I have plenty of those devices around.  I just chose to go with Alexa in my permanent home and GH in my temporary work home.  For variety.  And apparently, frustration.

-Tom

[asbril]

8 minutes ago, xlurkr said:

Nothing, other than return here and update if you find a way to make it work.  Thanks for trying.

This isn't urgent, merely frustrating.  And I could use Alexa; I have plenty of those devices around.  I just chose to go with Alexa in my permanent home and GH in my temporary work home.  For variety.  And apparently, frustration.

-Tom

It is interesting and frustrating at the same time how these things work differently. In IoX I was able to create programs that include announcements made on Alexa. With Home Assistant I have been unable to do the same with Alexa, but succeeded with Google Home, using a input_boolean helper.

[auger66]

On 4/12/2023 at 12:40 PM, xlurkr said:

You guys are torturing me with your success stories with Alexa.

-Tom

Not that it helps at all, but I found it interesting Sonos dropped support for Google Assistant on their latest speakers. I'm guessing Google pulled a vintage Apple.

[lilyoyo1]

3 hours ago, auger66 said:

Not that it helps at all, but I found it interesting Sonos dropped support for Google Assistant on their latest speakers. I'm guessing Google pulled a vintage Apple.

They didn't. They're in a patent dispute

[auger66]

8 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

They didn't. They're in a patent dispute

Looked into it. They did. CEO of Sonos:

For now, Google Assistant is absent from both speakers. Sonos says this is due to changes that Google has implemented for companies that want to run the voice service on third-party hardware. Patrick Spence claims it’s unrelated to the ongoing legal battle between the two companies and insists Assistant is now more of a “heavy engineering lift” than it was before. “Right now, we don’t see it being worth the effort. We hope Google will take another path that will allow us to continue to offer it in more of a lightweight manner the way we do today. But we also feel well covered with what we have with both Alexa and Sonos Voice Control.”

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

4 minutes ago, auger66 said:

Looked into it. They did. CEO of Sonos:

For now, Google Assistant is absent from both speakers. Sonos says this is due to changes that Google has implemented for companies that want to run the voice service on third-party hardware. Patrick Spence claims it’s unrelated to the ongoing legal battle between the two companies and insists Assistant is now more of a “heavy engineering lift” than it was before. “Right now, we don’t see it being worth the effort. We hope Google will take another path that will allow us to continue to offer it in more of a lightweight manner the way we do today. But we also feel well covered with what we have with both Alexa and Sonos Voice Control.”

 

 

Believe that if you want. They've come out with new product that supports Google since Google has implemented their changes. It's one hell of a coincidence that once their dispute got heated and new products were released, it became an issue. 

Besides that, If it were that hard, their other speakers wouldn't run it nor would other technologies use it either. 

[auger66]

OK, sure thing.

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, auger66 said:

OK, sure thing.

How do you like them Apple's?

[xlurkr]

@bmercier I'm really frustrated with this integration.  It occurred to me that if I can't get a sensor to show up as a trigger, maybe I can use an open/close sensor to turn on a device and use the device as a trigger.  But I can't get Google Home to reflect the correct on/off state of a dimmer module I installed just to be the "statekeeper", unless Google Home changes its state.  Is this how it's supposed to work?  Isn't the ISY supposed to tell Google Home whenever a device changes state, no matter how it happened?  I have tried unlinking and relinking UDI to Google Home several times, with no change.  Please help me.

-Tom