Someone check my basic program?

[Zick]

Sorry about that misdirect. I should have gone back to page 1 before posting. The KPL device name is a little unusual. Did you assign the KPL Name as the Insteon address. The Event Viewer did not show any Insteon message from the KPL. Could well be a communication problem with the way the Access Points are placed. It is good to have one at the PLM site but they still have to be on opposite 120V legs. With an Access Point at the PLM and one at the ApplianceLinc you may not have an Access Point on the 120V leg containing the KPL.

 

Guess I'm not sure what you mean "Did I assign the KPL name as the insteon address"

I didn't rename the Keypad but I did rename the address's of my relays.

 

I will have to double check if the access points are on opposite legs of the circuits.

[Zick]

Well the Access Points were not on opposite legs and now they are but it still doesn't solve my comm problem.

 

I'm gonna throw another wrench into this mystery. I have one other program that turns my front lights on from dusk to dawn and that one works perfectly. Would this indicate that my PLM is communicating fine?

[LeeG]

Does the Event Viewer level 3 show anything more now that the Access Points are on opposite 120V legs.

 

My KPL name is KeypadLinc-3. When I select a button and it is added to a Scene it is shown as KeypadLinc-3 - C, Your post is showing an Insteon address. Just looked a little unusual from what mine show.

[Zick]

When I had the event viewer up on LVL3, and hit the C button, nothing showed up in the event viewer window and both the 10.A3.C6.C & Master Bath Main Fan(relay) were showing off.

 

But when I Query the Scene, then I got this in the Event viewer and the Relay then showed On but my C button still showed off.

 

I did not rename any of my Keypad numbers, this is just how they were added.

[LeeG]

There is no query command for a Secondary KPL button so no change in the ISY display for a Secondary KPL button is normal.

 

There is no Insteon message from the KPL to the ISY PLM which there should be if the link records in both devices are correct and there is good powerline communication between the KPL and the ISY PLM.

 

Use Tools/Diagnostics/Show Device Links Table for the KPL. This will show if the link in the KPL is correct. Do the same thing for the PLM. If the links are there then there is a communication problem.

 

Did you use New INSTEON Device to add the KPL to ISY?

[oberkc]

I do not have any filters. Since this setup was first installed the only surge protectors I had were the small power stripe units that I have my TVs & Computers plugged into The PLM is not connected to a surge protector.

I howere did just install a new Whole House surge protector yesterday.

 

Uh oh. My experience has been that filters are required on my computer system to isolate the computer stuff from the PLM (don't put the PLM on the filter). I also have filters on TVs, water heater, and theater stuff. Most of this was discovered by trial and error.

 

I'm gonna throw another wrench into this mystery. I have one other program that turns my front lights on from dusk to dawn and that one works perfectly. Would this indicate that my PLM is communicating fine?

 

Communication problems are a mysterious thing. I would take this as evidence that the PLM is communicating, but that the circuit on which the front lights is electrically quieter than the circuit powering KPL button C. Communication problems, I believe can be cumulative. You may have noise on the computer circuit that, by itself, is not enough to cause problems and noise on the KPL button circuit not a problem by itself. Adding the two together, however, may be a problem.

 

When I run the scene tests (E.G. office lights) if the lights are on and I run the test it does turn off the lights but the test comes back as all Failed.

 

It has been my experience that running scene test can cause your insteon devices to change condition (off or on). It is, however, the "failed" listing in your event viewer that makes me continue to suspect you have some device or devices in your house either causing interference, or attenuating insteon signals.

 

There are lots of little tricks people use to find these little communication gremlins. This forum is full of folks with similar problems. Hopefully, you can find the various threads about this and get your system working well.

[Zick]

Here is the result of those Links tables. Now some of this is starting to get beyond my knowledge. I do see the Keypad address (10.A3.C6) in the PLM table and I see the relay address (12.92.E6) in the Keypad table and that matches the ISY.

 

 

And yes I did use the New Insteon Device to add the KPL to my ISY.

[Zick]

oberkc,

I will try the program out again but this time I will shut down any computers and other equipment to try and cancel any extra noices.

 

Will post back in a little bit.

[oberkc]

I will try the program out again but this time I will shut down any computers and other equipment to try and cancel any extra noices.

 

Keep in mind that turning off your computer system may not solve your problems. Printers, routers, power supplies, UPS, etc...all consume power and can create problems, even when off.

 

A quick experiment, if you want to try it, would be to find an outlet on the same circuit as that powering your KPL. Get a long extension cord and take the other end to the computer room. Plug in your PLM to the extension cord. See if this solves your problem.

[LeeG]

The link record In the PLM “A2 03 10.A3.C6 01 09 00†is a good “Responder to†link record for KPL button C (Group 3).

 

What is the PLM Insteon address?

 

The KPL has some 55 link records which could be valid if the KPL buttons are directly linked (Scenes) to many other Insteon devices on the powerline. Is it reason in your configuration to have some 40 link records for devices either being controlled by the KPL buttons or the KPL buttons are responding to? There are 16 link records in an 8 button KPL that the ISY writes for its own purposes. Eight of them allow button press messages to be sent to the ISY PLM and 8 of them allow the ISY to control the KPL buttons.

 

oberkc suggestion of plugging the PLM into the KPL circuit is a good diagnostic technique if you can find an outlet on the same breaker as the KPL.

 

EDIT: althought I have been using Insteon almost since Smarthome started selling the technology I am only a few months with the ISY. Does any watching this thread know what the ISY is indicating by the [identical] designation on the beginning of the KPL link record display. That has no meaning as far as Insteon is concerned. I do not see that when I use Tools to display a KPL database here.

[Zick]

Found it!

Shut down my main computer, 3 laptops, printer, wireless router, server and the problem went away. The program ran like it should.

Started to power each one up individually to see which ones might cause it to stop and got through everything fine until I turned back on my main computer (the one I'm using now)

 

Now here is the strange part, I thought maybe it was the power line of the PC causing the problem but it's not. If I have the PC up and running but disconnect the Network line, the problem goes away. Now mind you the PC network cable plugs into the same switch that the ISY plugs into.

I have already tried moving the ISY off the switch and directly onto the Router but it didn't seem to help.

Any reason my PC NIC is too chatty?

 

Thanks for all the help guys!

[Zick]

The link record In the PLM “A2 03 10.A3.C6 01 09 00†is a good “Responder to†link record for KPL button C (Group 3).

 

What is the PLM Insteon address?

 

The KPL has some 55 link records which could be valid if the KPL buttons are directly linked (Scenes) to many other Insteon devices on the powerline. Is it reason in your configuration to have some 40 link records for devices either being controlled by the KPL buttons or the KPL buttons are responding to? There are 16 link records in an 8 button KPL that the ISY writes for its own purposes. Eight of them allow button press messages to be sent to the ISY PLM and 8 of them allow the ISY to control the KPL buttons.

 

oberkc suggestion of plugging the PLM into the KPL circuit is a good diagnostic technique if you can find an outlet on the same breaker as the KPL.

 

EDIT: althought I have been using Insteon almost since Smarthome started selling the technology I am only a few months with the ISY. Does any watching this thread know what the ISY is indicating by the [identical] designation on the beginning of the KPL link record display. That has no meaning as far as Insteon is concerned. I do not see that when I use Tools to display a KPL database here.

 

The [identical] shows up after clicking the Compare button. I assume it is comparing the table between the Keypad and the ISY.

 

As far as why I have so many links for the KP I really can't say for sure. I do have a Master Off scene that I had to add in every single device as a responder so that when it turned off a light that it would also turn off the light on the switch. This took forever to create all the links for that.

 

That KP only has two buttons to be the controller for two relays (bath fan and shower lights). But all 8 buttons are responders to the All Off scene which has two buttons (controllers) to activate that scene.

[oberkc]

This took forever to create all the links for that.

 

Such a statement makes me wonder if you have links in some your devices from a manual process (versus created by ISY scenes). I would not expect creating a master off scene is relatively straight-forward using the ISY and should not take that much time.

 

I understand that having links in devices not known by the ISY (which can happen if one uses the manual method) can create problems with a system.

[LeeG]

What is the PLM Insteon address?

[Zick]

This took forever to create all the links for that.

 

Such a statement makes me wonder if you have links in some your devices from a manual process (versus created by ISY scenes). I would not expect creating a master off scene is relatively straight-forward using the ISY and should not take that much time.

 

I understand that having links in devices not known by the ISY (which can happen if one uses the manual method) can create problems with a system.

 

All my scenes including the All Off were created using the ISY. I have never setup a manual scene.

The long part is that it had to write the links to about 100+ devices which took forever especially when it locks up trying to write the link and I have to start all over.

[Zick]

What is the PLM Insteon address?

 

Sorry, it's OF.D6.A4

[LeeG]

Perhaps that is a finger check and should be ....

 

0F.D6.4A

 

If .4A is the correct address the KPL has a good "Controller of" for Group 3 (button C) pointing to the PLM . With the PLM having the correct “Responder to†link record that puts the problem in the communication arena.

 

This is an 8 button KPL?

[oberkc]

which took forever especially when it locks up trying to write the link and I have to start all over

 

I would even take this as evidence of communication problems. I found that when I was able to identify my problem devices and filter them, communication speed increased, and more than a little. Hopefully, you will find the same thing.

[Zick]

Sorry LeeG, fat fingers you are correct.

 

Ok, so it sounds like I have some communication issues going on. Not sure what I can do since it appears to be on the Network line side of things and not so much noise over the power lines.

[oberkc]

Not sure what I can do since it appears to be on the Network line side of things and not so much noise over the power lines.

 

???

 

This sounds exactly like powerline communication problems, to me.

[Zick]

But the problem only goes away when I disconnect the network cable from my computer.

[oberkc]

That is one I have not experienced nor recall seeing on the forums. I can only wonder if plugging in your network cable causes the computer to perform some response that generates a lot of noise on the powerlines. I would be getting me some filters and putting the first one on your computer equipment (not the PLM).

[LeeG]

So when you disconnect the Network cable from the ISY then the Programs are triggered when you press the KPL button?

 

Are the status LEDs on the front of the ISY or the LEDs on the Internet jack on the back of the ISY showing signs of communication when the cable is plugged in, LEDs blinking when no Insteon traffic?

 

Are you using a standard 2412S PLM or the newer 2413S Dual Band PLM and using an external power supply to power the ISY?

[Zick]

That is one I have not experienced nor recall seeing on the forums. I can only wonder if plugging in your network cable causes the computer to perform some response that generates a lot of noise on the powerlines. I would be getting me some filters and putting the first one on your computer equipment (not the PLM).

 

I have no idea why it would cause any extra noise especially on the power lines due to network traffic.

What kind of filters would be available for the network line. I've seen the filters that Smarthome sells but they are for the powerlines. I suppose I could try one of those.

 

So when you disconnect the Network cable from the ISY then the Programs are triggered when you press the KPL button?

 

Are the status LEDs on the front of the ISY or the LEDs on the Internet jack on the back of the ISY showing signs of communication when the cable is plugged in, LEDs blinking when no Insteon traffic?

 

Are you using a standard 2412S PLM or the newer 2413S Dual Band PLM and using an external power supply to power the ISY?

 

No, when I disconnect the network cable from my computer that is when the program works fine.

 

I am using the 2412S PLM and no I am not using an external power supply to the ISY. The ISY gets it's power from the PLM.

[LeeG]

Sorry for the slow responses as I am not getting email notification of new posts. It does not sound like powerline noise when things work okay with the network cable removed. More inclined to think heavy network traffic is preventing the ISY from servicing the PLM. Are you seeing consistent LEDs blinking either front or back when the network cable is installed. Bring up the Event viewer and see what it shows with the network cable installed without testing Insteon devices. Frequent attempts to time sync comes to mind if the NTP server option is on but you cannot reach an NTP server. Something like that. Again, if programs work consistently without the network cable installed I don't think it is powerline noise or signal attenuation. I think it is related to heavy and persistent network load.