Can't do mutually-exclusive buttons in a remote scene?

[jtara92101]

I gather there is an "old way" and a "new way" to do mutually-exclusive buttons. Administrative Console strongly urges you do do it the "new way". That is, using scenes rather than the mutually-exclusive settings on the switch.

 

In my kitchen, I have a 6-button KPL. A is cooking, B is eating, C is reading. D has another use and isn't mutually-exclusive. I have 4 scenes - default, cooking, eating reading. The main on/off button (not connected to a load) is controller for default, and A, B, and C are controllers for their corresponding scenes.

 

I added the A, B, and C switches as responders to the main scene (linked to the on/off buttons). Then added the main button, B and C to the cooking scene, etc.

 

Then, I changed the sliders for the mutually-exclusive buttons to 0 in the set of sliders for each switch.

 

I also set the A, B, C buttons to non-toggle on. I don't want the confusion of being able to turn off a scene with the scene button in this case. The OFF button is always used to turn the kitchen lights off. You want to cook, you press cook. You don't press cook to turn the lights off!

 

Anyway, this all works fine and as expected as long as you are using the KPL.

 

However, this scheme isn't usable if you are setting a scene remotely (say, with an ISY program.)

 

The problem is, there are no sliders for the button responders in the scene itself! The sliders are there when you select the controller for the scene, but not for the scene itself. They are there in the device list, but no slider!

 

When I activate a scene, (say, Cooking) using Administrative Console, A, B and C ALL light up!

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

I can see a possible work-around by putting each button as a responder in a scene by itself, and turning scenes ON or OFF from the program to effect the LEDs.

 

It appears that a button responder can never have a slider in a scene, but always does for a controller of the scene? Why isn't ISY capable of doing what a hardware controller can do?

[LeeG]

KeypadLinc mutex button relationship only works when a KPL button is pressed. The KPL firmware does not honor/acknowledge the mutex relationship when KPL buttons are turned On/Off from another controller (ISY in this case).

 

Also Secondary KPL buttons cannot be turned Off when turning On a Scene (which is why no sliders). That is, the ON Insteon command will not turn Off a Secondary KPL button (the load KPL button is the exception).

 

When a KPL Secondary button is a Responder to a Scene, turning the Scene On turns the Secondary button LED On, turning a Scene Off turns the Secondary button LED Off.

[jtara92101]

Thanks!

 

So, the only way to do this from a program would be the work-around I mentioned earlier, or else have the program first turn off the mutually-exclusive scenes, then turn on the new one. Since that would cause the lights to blink, the first work-around is probably the best.

[LeeG]

Since the load is not connected to the KPL there would be no light flash if all load On and Off was done through a Program. That introduces a small delay as the Program issues whatever is necessary to turn the load On. If the KPL buttons are directly linked to the responder load such that you get instant On response then more Scenes are necessary to turn insure the remaining KPL buttons are turned Off by turning the appropriate Scene Off.

 

Unfortunately KPLs have worked this way forever. This is not a limitation or restriction of the ISY itself.

[fitzpatri8]

Mutually exclusive scenes work fine with one keypad but get more complicated on the ISY as you add additional controllers.

 

Scenario: Secondary Button A and button B are mutually exclusive on two different keypads.

 

Create Scene A with keypad 1 & 2 Button A both as Controllers, plus any other scene members as responders or controllers.

Create Scene B with keypad 1 & 2 Button B both as Controllers, plus any other scene members as responders or controllers.

Create a third scene, "MutEx Scenes A B", containing all mutually exclusive buttons (in this case, both buttons on both keypads) as Responders. Do not include other members of the mutually exclusive scenes as responders to the third scene!

 

A single program is required for each mutually exclusive scene:

 

If
       Control 'Keypad 1 Button A' is switched On
    Or Control 'Keypad 2 Button A' is switched On

Then
       Wait  2 seconds
       Set Scene 'Mutex Keypad' Off
       Set Scene 'Scene A' On

Else
  - No Actions -

 

If
       Control 'Keypad 1 Button B' is switched On
    Or Control 'Keypad 2 Button B' is switched On

Then
       Wait  2 seconds
       Set Scene 'Mutex Keypad' Off
       Set Scene 'Scene B' On

Else
  - No Actions -

 

 

It's doable but not convenient. When you press a button, the button turns on (confirming the button press). Next the appropriate program waits a couple of seconds for messages from the keypad to finish and turns *all* mutex buttons off. Finally, the ISY resends the original scene, turning the appropriate mutex button back on and resending the original scene command. The mutex keypad indicators blink off then on, but you shouldn't see any difference in the other responders since you are resending the identical command.