KeyPadLinc Switch/Icon Relay 3-way virtual

[Buzzhazz]

Hi All

 

I hope this is the best place to post. I am finishing my basement and have installed a number of Insteon products in the last couple of days. I have been using the ISY-99i to link and create scenes and all has gone well.

 

Last night I decided to replace the 3-way switches at the top and bottom of the stairs with a KeyPadLinc Switch at the top and an Icon switch at the bottom wired in a virtual three way configuration. I know the wiring is correct as it is identical to the 3-way circuits I have created in the basement.

 

The idea is that I would use one of the extra buttons on the KPL as an ALL OFF scene switch for the basement lights (and use the other buttons for something else).

 

I have been largely unsuccessful at getting the Icon at the bottom to link with the KPL. I thought maybe the KPL was bad so replaced it with another and when that didn't help, I did the same with the Icon.

 

The only way I was able to get a link was by NOT using the ISY-99i and using the conventional method and that method only worked sometimes (I created and broke the link a number of times). Even when they were linked, the linked switch only controlled the load intermittently.

 

Also the ISY-99i loses comm with the KPL routinely.

 

This all sounds like an Insteon Comm problem, but a couple of things make me wonder:

 

1) The KPL and the Icon are physically connected by the romex that was part of the original 3-way switch. i.e. nothing in between the two to suck up the signal,and

 

2) The only thing on that circuit is a small number of conventional lights--no TVs or computers etc.

 

I have tried all the trick I can think of. Any help?

 

The KPL is 2486SWH6 V5.2 AND THE iCON IS 2876SB

[LeeG]

If there are problems doing Set button linking between the KPL and the ICON there is likely a wiring issue (lose connection in a wire nut, something like that) or there is something else on that particular circuit that is generating interference. Turn the circuit breaker Off and see what else is no longer working. Try unplugging anything that turned Off with the circuit breaker. It is not uncommon for Insteon switches to be on different circuits in a virtual 3-way configuration but in this case you indicate you retasked the traveler wires between the two 3-way switches to provide unswitched power to the other switch location.

 

By conventional lights, you mean convention incandescent lights. No CFLs, LEDs, fluorescents, etc.

[Buzzhazz]

If there are problems doing Set button linking between the KPL and the ICON there is likely a wiring issue (lose connection in a wire nut, something like that) or there is something else on that particular circuit that is generating interference. Turn the circuit breaker Off and see what else is no longer working. Try unplugging anything that turned Off with the circuit breaker. It is not uncommon for Insteon switches to be on different circuits in a virtual 3-way configuration but in this case you indicate you retasked the traveler wires between the two 3-way switches to provide unswitched power to the other switch location.

 

By conventional lights, you mean convention incandescent lights. No CFLs, LEDs, fluorescents, etc.

 

I'll rewire tomorrow making sure that I have all the wire nuts tightened. I gave a pretty good tug to them before mounting them, but it's possible something is loose. The conventional lights are incandescents. I do have an old 8-key X-10 KPL on that circuit with two slaves, but I have air-gapped the KPL. No difference.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[oberkc]

I'll rewire tomorrow making sure that I have all the wire nuts tightened.

Tightened wire nuts are good. Check, also, that the metal threads of the wire nuts are in contact with the wire's conductor, and not insulation. This can happen pretty easily.

[Buzzhazz]

I'll rewire tomorrow making sure that I have all the wire nuts tightened.

Tightened wire nuts are good. Check, also, that the metal threads of the wire nuts are in contact with the wire's conductor, and not insulation. This can happen pretty easily.

 

Yeah I considered that. I've actually been in the habit of stripping a little extra insulation off the device leads when I have more than two wires under the wire nut. But isn't it enough to note that the LEDs are lit up? That's not gonna happen if I don't have a solid hot and neutral connection, right?

 

I'll still double check. I may pull one of the switches in the three way and physically connect it to the same leads as the other switch and see if that helps.

 

I probably need to do some additional troubleshooting before I take up others' time here.

[oberkc]

But isn't it enough to note that the LEDs are lit up? That's not gonna happen if I don't have a solid hot and neutral connection, right?

It is only suspicion on my part, but I don't take LEDs as an indication of a "solid" connection. I still believe it plausible that a connection can be sufficent for gross power, but still inadequate for communication. I assume communication is expecially susceptible to arcing and higher resistance.

[Buzzhazz]

But isn't it enough to note that the LEDs are lit up? That's not gonna happen if I don't have a solid hot and neutral connection, right?

It is only suspicion on my part, but I don't take LEDs as an indication of a "solid" connection. I still believe it plausible that a connection can be sufficent for gross power, but still inadequate for communication. I assume communication is expecially susceptible to arcing and higher resistance.

 

Got it to work. Turns out while the circuit was lightly loaded and only with incandescents, one of the lights was being controlled by an older X10 KPL and I think BoosterLinc was enabled. I disconnected the KPL and everything started linking properly.