isy99user Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Looking to connect my EZIO8SA to an ELK-930 Door Bell / Phone interface (http://www.elkproducts.com/_webapp_2981 ... g_Detector) and then be able to trigger a program in the ISY when the door bell rings or the phone rings. The ELK-930 has an open collector (pull to ground) output. Two questions 1. Which connections should I use on the EZIO8SA? Based on this diagram http://www.elkproducts.com/_literature_ ... structions and the EZIO8SA manual I think it would be the NEG connection on the ELK-930 to I1- on the EZIO8SA, I1+ to 12V on the EZIO8SA and GND on the EZIO8SA to OUT on the ELK-930. But not sure... a number of posts have suggested I'd need a pull-up resistor of some kind too...but I see from the EZIO8SA manual that there is 1.5K resistor in the Input circuit diagram right before the opti-isolution. 2. I assume the ISY99 would just see an INSTEON "on" command from the EZIO8SA address when the door bell rings... is this correct Anyone help me out? P.S. Wasn't sure whether to post this in the ELK or the EZIO second... hope I guessed right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Yes I1+ through I4+ have internal current limiting resistors. EZIO8SA +12 volts to I1+. EZIO8SA I1- to ELK930 Output. EZIO8SA Ground to ELK930 NEG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 The opto-isolated inputs I1-I4 do not require a pull up resister nor should one be used. The I1+ is connected to the EZIO8SA 12V. The I1- is set to EZIO8SA GND to turn the input On. Probably requires the EZIO8SA GND be connected to the ELK GND, however that is done. I have no way to test or verify the ELK aspects of this. The EZIO8SA connections are correct. There is an ISY node for each EZIO8SA Input. The Program would be triggered with an If Control On from the EZIO8SA node being used. The EZIO8SA Inputs 5 & 6 should be connected to EZIO8SA GND before adding the EZIO8SA to the ISY. These inputs can run in analog mode which prohibits the use of a built in pull up resister. If not connected to GND the inputs are floating and can generate random Insteon messages from the EZIO8SA, lots of them if the electric environment near the EZIO8SA is busy. The EZIO8SA should be added to the ISY using New INSTEON Device and select Device Type Compacta EZIO8SA from the pulldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isy99user Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Many thanks guys... I'll go ahead and buy the ELK-930 now I know it will work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I don't think anyone has tried it with an EZIO8SA. I have one on an X10 Powerflash module and was hoping to try it on an EZIO8SA tomorrow. I have to dig out the older firmware instructions for it. As the present instructions don't seem to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isy99user Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 hoping to try it on an EZIO8SA tomorrow. Let me know how it goes! Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 My old firmware {reported by Simplehomenets utility as 1.4 and 1.5} EZIO8SA modules. Don't seem to work correctly with any of the different instruction sheet methods; for local linking to a test module. Even with old small database tables or newer large database tables PLMs. For those who know PLM firmware. They originally came with v24. I didn't want to go through ISY99i and I think they are too old firmware wise anyway for the ISY99i to work with them. So I will try a few different things but successful tests seem to be fading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi Brian, As far as I remember you need v28 for EZRain but I do not know the actual firmware version for any other EZ devices. I think LeeG is the expert on EZ devices. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Brian The latest firmware for the EZIOxx family is v2.8 The ISY SHN device support code added at the beginning of 2.8.x analyzes the PLM memory size when the EZIOxx device is added to the ISY. I've tested with older devices with the small memory model (417 links) and the newer (odd to say that since new has been discontinued) larger PLM memory (2000+ links). Although v1.4 and v1.5 are very old firmware they may add okay. With Event Viewer Device communications events selected try adding either as an ISY device and save the event log in case it comes into question. Use the PLM with the larger memory. The issue may come down to the PLM variant that physically has the larger memory but PLM firmware that uses it as small memory. I have run into 2/3 of those since the beginning of 2.8.x. Screws up the algorithm used by device add. The ISY link records are written at 3FF8 because the physical memory is large but the PLM firmware looks for them at 0FF8 because of the old PLM firmware. Can't win for losing. I do a Factory reset of the EZIOxx and create a Set button link with any controller/responder. Then use the SHN Utility to read the link database using Large and Small options to see where the PLM firmware actually wrote the link record. This can be compared to the size of memory conclusions of device add to see if the PLM is one that cannot be handled. A true small memory or large memory PLM should work fine. If the SHN Utility cannot be run then looking at the Event Trace produced during device add may provide the answer. I’m pretty sure the first link record is read during device add. If the Set button link is read then regardless of memory size the ISY and the PLM are in sync as far as where to read/write link records. Only need the Input 1 link to work to test the ELK connection question anyway. If you do this, factory reset, create a Set button link, add EZIO8SA to ISY, you can send the Event Trace to lwgwork@embarqmail.com. I think that will show if the link records are being processed at the right location. The 1.4/1.5 firmware is aged enough that I don’t remember any issues back then. The EZIOxx command set has not changed so that should not be a problem. Also the ISY uses very few EZIOxx specific commands anyway. Limited to query if this old human memory is working right. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Thanks for the information Lee. I was not even trying the EZIO8SA with the ISY99i. All I wanted to do was a manual link between it and a spare ApplianceLinc or Lamplinc. To see if my ELK-930 could turn the module on and off. I tried the very old instructions in the box, older instructions from on line and the latest on line. All resulted in the LED on the PLM flashing randomly like I forgot to finish the sequence properly. I think the original one was too old as it said you could still manually link with the set button and I know IMConfig showed the Manual linking bit set to disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Later I did try it added to my ISY99i setup and it did add all the inputs and outputs. Though changing the I1 input from one state to the other did not update the status of the input. I did have AN1 and AN2 tied to ground so they would not float. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Brian Thanks. I was going to suggest tying AN1 & AN2 to Gnd but you already covered that. Were they tied to Gnd while trying to Set button link? Does sound like the link records are not working. Did you collect an Event Trace while adding the EZIO8SA to the ISY? I don't have anything that old to see what might be happening at the 1.4/1.5 level. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 No I didn't and I am not sure if the standard log will show too much. Though I may give it a look and see what it says. Results may even vary depending on which PLM revision I grabbed with it. I believe a few of mine have known firmware glitches. Plans to use them never materialized so I never did the update you EZIO8SA with PLM service from Simplehomenet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isy99user Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 Wow thanks guys for all the efforts... amazing. I should say I have successfully linked my EZIO8SA to my ISY99. Took a couple of attempts... but now working reliably. I can control the outputs, and all the inputs except AN1 and AN2 are off (I haven't grounded AN1 and AN2 so these have floated to "on" and luckily I'm not seeing a lot of "noise" generated Insteon traffic) Brian H. -> I'm a bit confused... is the net result of the testing you've son kindly done that the ELK930 will work with the EZIO8SA and the ISY or not, or are we not sure? By "work" I mean that when the door bell or phone rings and the ELK-930 detects this, the EZIO8SA will correctly see this on I1 (door bell), I2 (phone), and send the appropriate insteon command which I can detect in an ISY program? I'm assuming I'd connect the ELK-930 to the EZIO8SA based on Brian H.'s post above http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?p=49847#p49847 Many thanks for your continued support... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 isy99user I suggest connecting AN1 and AN2 to EZIO8SA GND even if not seeing a problem. Leaving them in an electrically floating condition will come back and bite eventually. These Inputs will show On when locked to GND. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I did another test with the EZIO8SA v1.5 firmware and the original PLM firmware 2.4 that does not even act like a normal PLM. Box is labeled 2414S PLC and the box says PLM programmed specially for Simplehoment Products. With that combination. I could manually link it to a test Applancelinc and when patched into my ELK-930 doorbell detector. The Appliancelinc did cycle on and off when the bell rang. It would not communicate with the Simplehomenet Utility v2.02. Locked up and didn't respond to anything. So my tests can not tell you if the ISY99i will see the status changes as mine is too old for proper tests. Mine added to My Lighting with a later revision PLM but didn't report status changes. The actual connections from the ELK-930 to the EZIO8SA I1 Inputs worked as expected. I would also say tie AN1 and AN2 to the ground of the EZIO8SA if not being used. The only question I had was the DC voltage to the ELK-930. It says 12 volt at up to 40ma. Well the raw 12 volts from the 2412S PLM through the EZIO8SA is closer to 19 volts. I checked the parts specifications for the ELK-930 and 19 volts is still within a safe margin. Note there are three break off boards in the ELK-930. Two Doorbell and one phone ring detector, Each can be independently used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 LeeG; Well after the PLM started spewing garbage I decided to try a Factory Reset. Unfortunately I forgot the original firmware has a nasty bug. The 30 volt charge pump switching supply FET to 100% On. Never got an exact cause. Anyway it is emitting the famous Magic Smoke and is 100% dead. 2.5 Ohm short on the raw 12 volt supply. I may do an autopsy on it and see exactly what shorted. Well for my curiosity anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isy99user Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Brian H.... thanks very much for checking... looks like I should be OK... and very sorry about your PLM BTW both my 2412S's were bought at the same time from the excellent folks at Aartech.ca: one for the EZIO8SA and one for the ISY99. Both say on labels on the plug side (near the interface) - Rev 3.1 - 2412S - 0852 - the Insteon Address 0F.D6.98 And in the upper right the oh so reassuring QC9! Do I have anything to worry about for either the EZIO8SA or ISY99 ... I don't seem to see a version number like the ones you and LeeG were talking about... Thanks again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isy99user Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 I suggest connecting AN1 and AN2 to EZIO8SA GND even if not seeing a problem. Leaving them in an electrically floating condition will come back and bite eventually. These Inputs will show On when locked to GND. Done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The information on the ISY99i can be found in the Help Tab, About choice and the Tools Tab, Diagnostics Menu, PLM Info/Status. You may want to make a note of what revision of ISY firmware is in your unit from the About Screen. Also the PLM firmware version reported in the PLM Info/Status Screen. The firmware of the EZIO8SA is displayed though the Simplehomenet Utility. Not sure if the ISY99i can give that data. I kind of doubt it. Thanks for the concerns for the smoky PLM but it was a very early one. Converted by Smartlabs from a 2414S PLC controller to a 2412S PLM controller. It still has the PLC daughter card in it. Unused Real Time Clock with battery and large partially unused memory size. I may use the daughter card for other things. Like a small RS232 interface. I verified that Q4 and L1 in the PLM are toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I tried the ELK-930 with a Simplehomenet EZIO2X4. On its I1 Inputs. Used its internal 5 volt supply and it also worked fine with the ELK-930. Also works when connected to the Sensor and Ground connections of a 2450 I/OLinc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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