An ISY State Of Mind

[FrayAdjacent]

I've been reading around, trying to glean info while I wait for my ISY99 to get in - actually it's at the post office, and I'll go pick it up this morning - and will start setting it up soon. Currently, I run an EZServ, which has left me sorely disappointed, and has driven me to get an ISY99. I already know the ISY99 will do SO MANY THINGS my EZServ can't dream of. Heck, the last firmware update for that unit came out in 09, IIRC!

 

Anyway, my mind is still in the EZServ state of mind... but what do I mean by that? I mean that most concepts are different with the EZServ. It has Areas (groups of devices), Scenes and Actions (programs). You can't do much with the Areas area, except, well, have a list of devices that are in the same area. Scenes works like I think one would expect scenes to work, although I have none set up. Why you ask? Because in the Actions area, you can't activate a scene from a program!! Yeah. It sucks. Bad.

 

So I think I need to change my state of mind to work with the ISY99. I've skimmed around the forums, and the Wiki, but only have a slight grasp on the best way to approach setting up my ISY99.

 

I know I'll have to get the individual devices set up. I'll use the Wiki for a guide there. The next part is the change of mind, and my questions relating to it: Currently the 'actions' on my EZServ are mostly just timers (at this time, do this, etc.) Since I can't call scenes from actions with the EZServ, and the number of actual actions each action can perform is pretty much limited to 5, it's left me limited. I'm expecting that on the ISY99, I can set up scenes, and then just have programs call the scenes.

 

I guess that's just a longwinded way of saying "on the ISY99, for 'timer' events, is the best way to do what I want to set up scenes and then call them from programs?"

 

 

I apologize if this kind of question is redundant... I know that forums that have been around for a while usually have many of the same questions asked and answered, but often it's in different ways, and it's a bit tricky to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[LeeG]

EZSrve Areas will equate to ISY Folders. Devices and ISY Programs can be assigned to ISY Folders in whatever association you want.

 

ISY Scenes link devices together just like an Insteon Scene. Multiple Insteon Scenes can be defined using one ISY Scene. Scenes can be controlled from ISY Programs using Actions. I should note that Scenes can be run from EZSrve Actions as well. Although apparently they are not being used that way they are presented in a similar fashion on the ISY. There is an ISY Program Action to control Insteon. Much of an ISY Action is defined using pulldowns. For an Insteon Action the devices and Scenes are listed and selected from a pulldown (like the EZSrve). Insteon Actions can be command based (Control) or device state (Status).

 

There is no limit to the number of ISY Actions that can be defined in an ISY Program.

 

ISY Programs can be triggered by Events (Insteon, ELK, X10, IR, Variables, and others) using the Condition button to define and they can be triggered by Time using the Schedule button to define and a combination of the two ANDed and ORed. Whether a Program uses device Direct commands or Scenes is your choice. Whatever is appropriate for the situation. Scenes have the advantage of simultaneous reaction of responders.

 

The ISY User Guide available online and the UDI Wiki have an excellent collection of How To’s and examples. The Wiki has a section on how to add devices which is very handy for those devices that have special needs.

 

This just skims the surface. Some things will be similar to the EZSrve in concept, some will not. Some of the ISY Program traits are a little different particularly in the area of Wait and Repeat but they are well documented in the Wiki.

[oberkc]

I guess that's just a longwinded way of saying "on the ISY99, for 'timer' events, is the best way to do what I want to set up scenes and then call them from programs?"

 

Best is always subjective, but this is the way I do it. A timer program generally looks like:

 

if
time is sunset
then
set scene "interior" on
set scene "exterior" on

 

Of course, you could use a discrete time rather than sunset.

[FrayAdjacent]

Thanks guys, I'm pretty sure I'll get the hang of the ISY99 pretty quick. I work in IT, so technical stuff is not alchemy to me!

 

I never did figure out how to get a scene to respond to an Action on the EZServ... I mostly gave up on it, but maintain some simple actions set up as timers. I did manage to get an action called by a button on my RemoteLinc as well, but that took some digging and fooling around.

 

 

One other concern I have is with the RemoteLinc. While I'd like to have some devices directly controlled from it (through the ISY99, I know it's best to run everything through it instead of direct linking), I'd like to have some set up conditionally... like this:

 

If between sunrise and sunset

Button 5 ON is pressed

then set thermostat to such and such

 

else

 

if between sunset and sunrise

Button 5 ON is pressed

then set thermostat to such and such AND turn on some lights

 

 

The issue or question about that scenario I have is that if I press the ON button 5 during daytime, as soon as sunset hits, does the second sequence of events get triggered? IIRC, when you set a program to be triggered by a button on the RemoteLinc, it sets it to a status, as a wall switch would be.

 

Is there a way to get around that? So that if I do something like the above, and then leave for the day, the sunset action won't be triggered, without having to push the OFF button 5?

 

Basically, I'd rather have the buttons on the RemoteLinc act as just triggers for scenes or actions (some depending on time of day), but not have the ISY trigger other events because a button on the RemoteLinc was pressed X hours ago!

[LeeG]

The ISY has If/Then/Else. If does not have If/Then/Else/If. Programs can be triggered by a specific command from a specific button (Control) or a change in state (Status). Either of these can be ANDed to only trigger during a particular time frame.

 

Setting aside that If/Then/Else/If does not exist, a single button press (Control) triggers a Program when the button is pressed. It does not trigger a Program hours later although that can be programmed with ISY Programs it is not the default action of Control. The Status Action is based on device state. A Program can be triggered when Status changes with the Then or Else clause driven depending on whether the IF Status is True or False.

 

I would disagree with the idea that Scenes should not be used to link device together. Linking devices together directly with Scene is the most normal use of Insteon. Going through an ISY Program introduces a small delay while the Program is invoked and it issues whatever Actions are appropriate. There are many very good uses for ISY Programs and they should be used but not to the exclusion of device to device direct control with Scenes.

[FrayAdjacent]

Lee,

 

Thanks for the response. I would guess that what I was saying I'd want to do that would result in an if/then/else/if, would actually have to be done in two programs. This is the way I did it in the EZServ.

 

The issue was, when I hit the ON button on my RemoteLinc that triggered an action during the day, the action triggered by that same button at sunset was run at sunset, because the button was previously pressed.... basically the button goes into a state, and the EZServ read it as "button 5 in ON state AND sunset..."

 

As for scenes, I agree, I was just saying that I never figured out how to get the EZServ to activate a scene from an action. I'd much rather use scenes than actions/programs with individual actions set.

[FrayAdjacent]

Lee,

 

Thanks for the response. I would guess that what I was saying I'd want to do that would result in an if/then/else/if, would actually have to be done in two programs. This is the way I did it in the EZServ.

 

The issue was, when I hit the ON button on my RemoteLinc that triggered an action during the day, the action triggered by that same button at sunset was run at sunset, because the button was previously pressed.... basically the button goes into a state, and the EZServ read it as "button 5 in ON state AND sunset..."

 

As for scenes, I agree, I was just saying that I never figured out how to get the EZServ to activate a scene from an action. I'd much rather use scenes than actions/programs with individual actions set.

[LeeG]

The If Control variant reacts to commands as they are received from the device.

 

The If Status variant reacts as the device state changes and it also allows for static state checks.

 

In the following example of If Control anytime the RemoteLinc button 4 is pressed ON and it is between Sunrise and Sunset the Then clause will run. Only when the button is actually pressed and an ON command is sent will this Program trigger.

 

If

Control 'RemoteLinc-2 - 4' is switched On

And From Sunrise

To Sunrise (same day)

 

Then

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

In the following example of If Status when the device Status changes when the RemoteLinc button 4 is pressed ON and it is between Sunrise and Sunset the Program triggers, like the first example. One difference is the Then or Else clause can run depending on whether the state change makes the If True or False. An OFF button 4 press also triggers the Program because the state changed but the Else clause would run because the If is False with a state change to OFF. Also because Status is state based, the Program will also trigger at Sunrise and at Sunset if the state of the RemoteLinc button 4 is ON at those times.

 

If

Status 'RemoteLinc-2 - 4' is On

And From Sunrise

To Sunrise (same day)

 

Then

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

The results obtained are very different between the two examples. The Program is coded based on the results you want. You can get a trigger only when a button is pressed and you can trigger based on state. Just depends on the desired results.

 

In some respects it is similar to the EZSrve Attribute Value where the state can be checked using FF (ON) or 00 (OFF) or 1104 for a button 4 On press Group command. Similar to the difference between If Status and If Control. The GUI in ISY is much more user friendly and does not require a knowledge of the numeric command numbers or On/Off Level values. I think you will be very happy with the ISY.

 

The Wiki has a good explanation about the If Control and IF Status along with the other Program functions.

[FrayAdjacent]

Lee, THANKS! That cleared it WAY up for me!

 

I appreciate you taking the time to explain it for me.