beachfront71 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hi and thanks in advance .. Finally upgraded from the 2412 to ISY99 and its sort of like going from basic math to chemistry although I am sure I will get the hang of it. I have all my devices linked into the sytem but can not for the life of me make my simple setup work. If someone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. All I want to do is link keypads with switchlinc's Scenario: I have 2 keypads that are labled .. lets say I want to make the living room light go on either by the keypad or the switch and have all updated: I have Create scene called Living Room and add the switch as the controller and the keypad buttons (button c on both keypad's) the responder? When I hit button c the lights go on and it updates .. but if I hit the switch itself nothing happends Do I now need to add the keypads as controllers and the switch as a responder? If someone could detail this basic setup that would be great as it is most of my scenarios and I am sure other newbies as well. I have read about the controller responder relationship but still can not figure it out. Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 A single ISY Scene with the switch and KeypadLinc buttons as Controllers. The ISY assumes a Controller is also a Responder. All switch and button cross linking will be done such that all the devices can control the load and all status LEDs will stay in sync. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 THanks. Follow up .. How come I can link a keypad to a switch manually (wlak back and forth) but am not able to link to the ISY99 in linking mode? With the 2412 I had everything running perfect .. ISY is not able to link 2 or 3 switches ... I am having to link the keypads to ISY then manually add the switches to the keypads so everything updates properly. Thanks again for any help. Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 How come I can link a keypad to a switch manually (wlak back and forth) but am not able to link to the ISY99 in linking mode? The difference between the two situations is communication with the PLM. Where is it plugged in? In a surge suppressor or UPS? Next to one or both? Along with lots of other computer stuff? I am having to link the keypads to ISY then manually add the switches to the keypads so everything updates properly. For the ISY to be at its most effective, you need to create links using the ISY. If you are having problems with this, my suggestion is to identify and solve that problem. Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 All of what oberkc said. You are in for nothing but trouble creating links outside of the ISY. The ISY is not aware of those links and will eventually overlay or erase them. The powerline path between the switch and KeypadLinc is very different from the powerline path from the ISY PLM to the switch and KeypadLinc. Like comparing Apples to Oranges. Is there other equipment plugged into the same outlet as the PLM such as PC and/or UPS that are not on a FilterLinc. Is the PLM plugged into a surge suppression power strip or perhaps on a UPS outlet. Is there a pair of Access Points that have been verified through the 4 tap Set button method to be on opposite 120V legs. Can the change in configuration be expanded a little. Not sure what is meant by going from a 2412 to an ISY. The ISY uses a 2412 or 2413 rather than replacing a 2412. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 The PLM is plugged into an outlet in my office which obviously has my computer, printer etc. in the room but not on the same plug.. I will test it out in other areas ... If I have 2 keypads that work perfect ... I can link them and include their links as well ... correct? As opposed to doing a fresh install... N Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 As a test plug the PLM into an extension cord and plug the extension cord into an outlet in another room. The PC equipment, UPS if any should be on a FilterLinc. How are you going to "link them and include their links as well" if the ISY cannot communication with them. Likely a good question that I just don't understand. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 THanks for all the help here .. sorry to bother but this is def a new world with ISY. I am going to try the troubleshooting steps mentioned here ... What I meant about Linking in the earlier post was that Since the keypads and switches all work fine without ISY, there is an option to link and keep all existing links found ... I did this and and it all came over normal except the switches it could not talk to .. I will get some filters and ap's on Monday from the store and see if that helps things out. The wierd thing is I was able to link all of this the first time I set up but started running into trouble so I erased everything and started over ... THanks again. Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I will get some filters and ap's on Monday from the store and see if that helps things out. Try out LeeGs extension cord test first, to confirm this is the problem. Be sure to plug it into an outlet on a different circuit than your computer. It probably does not hurt to ask whether you have the two legs of your electrical system coupled with any dual-band insteon devices or access points or signalincs? It could simply be that your PLM is on a different leg of your electrical system than is your PLM. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 OK. I ran an extension cord from our bedroom to the PLM and was able to connect to the "lost" switches... Does that mean: 1. I need access points - I do not have any as I have never had the need for them with the 2412 and the smarthome app on my iphone .) or 2. I need an additional dual band product to compliment the 2413 Dual band I got when I purchased the ISY.. I was under the impression dual band products act as access points ... Thanks again for all of the help .. Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 For most systems, you need at least two dual-band devices, one on each leg of your electrical system. If you are sure that all of your insteon devices are on the same leg, then you may be able to forgo this, but if not, then best be safe. I was under the impression dual band products act as access points Your impressions are correct. I need an additional dual band product to compliment the 2413 Dual band I got when I purchased the ISY Yes. Do you not have two dual-band devices? Yes, your dual-band PLM is one. You need two, on opposite legs, to provide a communication path between legs of your electrical system. If you don't have two properly installed dual-band devices, my suggestion is to purchase a single access point and install it in an outlet on the opposite leg of your PLM. Given this news about your possible lack of enough dual-band devices, the extension cord test may be inconclusive. If you had two dual band devices, the extension cord test would have confirmed the suspected communication problems on your computer circuit. A filter for your computer equipment would be the remedy. Filters are not terribly expensive. Perhaps it would be good insurance simply to purchase one regardless. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks again for the help / advice .. So here is my final question .. I have part of the house controlled by the main breaker And then part of the house controlled by a sub panel in the laundry room.. I am assuming that when placing dual band, AP's etc .. you are talking about the 2 legs on each side of a panel (ie finding an installation that covers both side of the laundry room).. ? Or are you talking about the main breaker circuits as one side and the laundry room circuits as the other .. Check is in the mail .. Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't believe it matters. You have two legs, whether main panel or sub. Perform the test in the instructions that confirm the devices are on opposite legs, and you will be fine. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Spoke w Smarthome today and now even more confused. As mentioned I was running a smartlinc and the mobilinc app w no problems. The problems listed in this thread were regarding the PLM and ISY installation. Smarthome mentioned if the smartlinc worked the PLM should work even better without the need for AP's, etc. .. which I have never had. I think I am going to do a hard reset on the unit and reinstall before purchasing a the new AP's. etc. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just an update for anyone interested: Today we reset the PLM and ISY and relinked all the devices .. So far it has worked perfect. Not sure what the previous issues were but the message from Smarthome was that if I had it working as desired with the Smartlinc, I should be able to have it working with the PLM .. they had told me that based on it working correctly in the past, I do not need to purchase any AP's or additional dual band products. We shall see ... Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 As mentioned I was running a smartlinc and the mobilinc app w no problems. Sorry, but I missed any mention of prior experience with smartlinc. I have not memorized part numbers and your mention of "2412" just went right over my head. My earlier suggestions were based upon having failed to catch that little tidbit. Generally, I agree with the logic that if a PLM location worked for smartlinc, it should work for ISY. I vaguely recall posted suspicions that the new, dual-band, PLM may not communicate as well as the older versions. I suspect that smarthome would not admit to this being the case, if true (and it may not be). Glad it is all working now. Sometimes computers simply need rebooted. Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Very few home installations work without coupling 120V legs. When a 240V appliance is running, such as an electric clothes dryer, hot water heater, and so on, will provide temporary intermittent coupling. If/when your system shows instability install a pair of Access Points. Comparing the Insteon traffic generated by a SmartLinc to what the ISY generates is night and day. This is due in large part to the great Scene management the ISY has which the SmartLinc does not. Dozens or even hundreds of commands can be issued by the ISY for Scene management which must work. The SmartLinc never issued that level of traffic because it does not support the function. Smarthome gave you some bad advice about not needing coupling. Of course, if it works great, but most homes DO NOT work without positive coupling. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks to all again for the feedback .. Last question on this topic and I know it was covered a bit earlier but still a bit unclear.. I am going to go ahead and couple the phases as so many have metnioned.. With that in mind, I currently have 1 dual band device ... the PLM for my ISY setup ... So do I need: A. one other dual band device on the opposite phase of the PLM B. one other access point to pair with the PLM or C. something else ? (ie 2 new access points, etc. Sorry for all of the questions and again, appreciate the feedback! Link to comment
LeeG Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 A or B or C are all valid solutions. I recommend an Access Point for the other 120V leg. It can be moved around to different outlets until one on the opposite leg is found and also within the Dual Band PLM range. Access Points seem to have slightly better range than other Dual Band devices. EDIT: the down side to depending on the Dual Band PLM for half of the coupling is the PLM is not always in a good central location. I use a pair of Access Points located in good central locations for both coupling and as interfaces for the many RF only devices (motion sensors, triggerlincs, remotelinc, remotelinc2. tstat adaptor, and I'm sure more to come). Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Will do ! Thanks Lee Without starting a new topic, Is "My Lighting" really just a place to get a systemwide overview of all devices? I am trying to isolate it on Mobilinc because if you (or your spouse) accidentley hit it all the lights, garage door, etc will turn on, open, etc. I renamed it zzLightingzz so it is always at the bottom of the lists but can not figure out a way to hide it on Mobil Linc without just deleting it.. Besides the overview and status of all .. is there anther reason you use it? Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Is "My Lighting" really just a place to get a systemwide overview of all devices? Yes, and of scenes and room folders I am trying to isolate it on Mobilinc because if you (or your spouse) accidentley hit it all the lights, garage door, etc will turn on, open, etc. the ISY-99 and the "my lighting" tree are not, in my estimation, intended as user interfaces for the purpose of turning on lights and activating scenes. As such, the idea of accidently hitting "all the lights" is near non-existent. Use the ISY to create scenes and programs. Scene controllers should be insteon switches or keypads or android apps or iphone apps or.... Unfortunately, I don't use mobilinc so I cannot help with how to set this up to make user friendly. I cannot help but strongly suspect there are better options than renaming the lighting tree. Link to comment
beachfront71 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks Oberkc for the info.. In mobilinc, My Lighting is downloaded and visible as scene so in theory, you could open that scene, hit on and open the garage door as well as turn all lights on .. The scenes are listed a to z which is why I renamed my lighting so it is at the bottom of all the lists, making it a little tougher to accidently have someone open.. That being said, I jsut learned that creating a scene with the words "hide me" will make it invisible in mobil linc which is what I was looking for... Link to comment
oberkc Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 That being said, I jsut learned that creating a scene with the words "hide me" will make it invisible in mobil linc which is what I was looking for... Nice! I am glad you found the better solution. Have you not checked out the mobilinc threads, under third-pary apps? Link to comment
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