GFI & ISY?

[RichTJ99]

Hi,

 

I am having a strange problem with a switchlinc relay. In the pool, I have an underwater pool light (2), I have a 15 amp GFI breaker connected. So most of the time it is fine, periodically, it will pop.

 

The way its wired, there is a main coming into the house, a sub panel that goes to the pool house, then another sub panel coming off the pool house sub panel to handle the pool mechanicals.

 

So if I am turning switches on & off manually, it seems to be fine. When I use my ISY (specifically mobilinc) to turn things on & off through the browser or app, every once in a while it pops the breaker.

 

Its not turning on the underwater lights that does it, its turning on other things in the pool house & remote seems to be the issue or trigger.

 

I did swap out the switchlinc for a switchlinc dual band dimmer & it was fine & i thought the issue was solved but this evening it popped again.

 

Sometimes it will pop with the underwater lights on, other times, another device in the pool house triggers the 'pop'.

 

MY question is if the powerline communication could be causing some extra bit of data that the GFI circuit is catching as a 'problem' & popping?

 

Any suggestions would be great now that I tried two different insteon switches.

 

I could also try putting a regular non-insteon swtich to see if the breaker pops, but since the issue is intermittent I suspect the Insteon switch is the problem.

 

Thanks

Rich

[LeeG]

Were any games played with neutrals associated with any of the switches or loads. Like sharing neutrals from other circuits, using the green wire ground for neutral, stuff like that. The GFI is tripping because the current flowing on the line and neutral do not match or something is flowing on the green wire ground.

[ELA]

Hello RichTJ99,

 

You never want to exclude the possibility that a GFCI trip is a valid trip due to a current leakage issue that should be addressed.

That being said;

 

Yes GFCI circuits can trip due to Insteon Traffic. I have been able to produce this result on a GFCI outlet in my home, but then could not reproduce it afterwards.

The occurrence happened when I plugged a PLM directly into that outlet during testing. Thus the amplitude of the signal at that point was very strong.

That same circuit has never tripped for any other reason. This even though Insteon traffic does flow through that device all the time in route to some of my devices.

 

I believe the signal level (amplitude) combined with message length have to be just right for this to occur. Some GFCI's are likely to be more sensitive than others.

The fact that you have two sub panels may also contribute to the occurrence.

 

That type of issue is not easy to diagnose and cure. If you seriously want to resolve it you can rent or purchase a current meter designed to measure small amplitude differential currents. Or hire an electrician who is familiar with the type of equipment required.

That meter allows you to determine if the GFCI is experiencing some level of leakage all the time due to some other issue. These devices trip on a very small differential current of 5-6 milliamps. It is possible that you have some leakage all the time that is making this device then extra sensitive to Insteon traffic.

It is also possible that you have some equipment, or long wire runs, that allows the Insteon signal to capacitively couple to ground at some point, rather than returning back to the GFCI on the other conductor. This can be a very complex issue to sort out.

Best of luck

[jwagner010]

I had similar problems. Swapped GFCI with a different brand and my problem was solved.

[RichTJ99]

My problem is that the tripping is inconsitant. Sometimes it runs fine & other times, it just trips. I believe we wired it (I wasnt doing the wiring), so that it goes from the sub panel out of the GFI breaker, to 14 gauge wire, to the insteon switch, out to hte underwater pool lights.

 

If I take the Insteon switch out, it works fine & doesnt seem to trip (as far as I can tell).

 

Can I just buy a new breaker? Is it possible this 30 year old breaker is having some sort of issue? Is a new replacement breaker going to do the same thing?

 

Do I buy a new sub panel & replace everything?

[ELA]

GFCI breakers and outlets have definitely improved over the years with respect to "nuisance tripping". A big question is ... is this Nuisance tripping?

It may be worth a try but no guarantees. What brand is the current breaker? What is the wire length from the sub panel to the switch, then what length to the pool lights from there?

 

As I said if you want to be thorough you need to monitor the leakage current to be sure that you are not always on the very edge of tripping without Insteon traffic.

[steelman58]

RichTJ99,

 

Replacing a 30-years old GFCI breaker in a load centre should be part of this troubleshooting process, if for no other reason than as ELA pointed out: breaker technology has improved over the years (and is superior to 30 years ago). You should have it changed out in addition to checking the wiring (for nicks, faulty connections and incorrect wiring etc.), and then monitor the performance of your electrical system. If you are not comfortable with electrical work, have it done by a licensed electrician.

 

Consider LeeG's and ELA's comments regarding the source of the issue. As much as it is nice to have easy remedies for "Nuisance tripping" like changing out components, often the source of the problem is more obscure (like in older homes) and requires a great deal of time to search out the culprit. Since this is a matter of safety, don't assume anything, especially for a GFCI circuit.

[maslett]

Hi, 

 

I am having issues with my garage door IO Linc reliably opening and closing.

 

I strongly believe that the issue is due to the garage door opener being connected (on the same circuit) to a GFCI which is about 12 years old.

 

Does anyone know of an Insteon friendly GFCI?

 

Thanks, Mark

[stusviews]

Before you replace the GFCI, (temporarily) bypass it to see if the problem persists.