How to hook up wired motion sensors to EZIO?

[starmanj]

I hoped there might be expertise here on this; can't find anything in simplehomenet's site.

 

The EZIO8SA manual says this:

 

Inputs I1 - I4 can be used in a

way that the signal source is totally isolated from the

EZIO8SA, as may be the requirement for certain alarm

panel monitoring. In this case, the input must provide a

voltage between 3 and 30 VDC, connected between the

positive (Ix+) and negative (I1– or I2-) terminals. If

isolation is not required, these inputs can easily be

connected to “dry†contact closures such as those from

external relays, proximity detectors or door closure

sensors. In this case, connect the positive (I1+ or I2+)

terminal to the +12V terminal, and the contact closure

between the negative (I1- or I2-) terminal and the GND terminal.

 

I have DSC alarm panel, with a 4-wire motion detector. Two leads are power, two leads are "normally closed" with resistance of 90 ohms read at the alarm panel. There are no resistors in-line with the motion detectors. Am I correct to treat the motion detectors as "dry" contact closures? The last sentence above is confusing-- do I run a line directly from say DI1+ to the +12v terminal on the EZIO, and then take the two contact leads and screw one into DI1- and the OTHER lead to the GND terminal? I'm not sure what that would accomplish. When the motion sensor triggers, it OPENS the connection, therefore disconnecting DI1- right to GND. How will that trigger the EZIO? It seems like there will normally be 12 volts shorted to GND all the time?? This can't be right...

 

Help?

 

Starmanj

[LeeG]

If the two wires with 90 ohm resistance are truly isolated from the DSC power than the approach is EZIO8SA 12V to the I1+, EZIO8SA GND to one wire on the motion sensor. -I1 to the other motion sensor wire. I do not know if that will work but it will not cause any damage so long as those two motion sensor wires are completely isolated from DSC power. This arrangement was meant for a true dry contact closure with 0 ohms controlling GND to -I1. not through a 90 ohm resistance.

 

If the EZIO8SA Input turns On with -I1 connected to GND through the 90 ohm resistance the Input will turn Off when Motion is sensed. A test will have to be done to see if this works.

[LeeG]

If that approach does not work reverse it. Connect EZIO8SA GND to –I1, connect +I1 to one of the motion sensor wires and EZIO8SA +12V to the other motion sensor wire. That will create a voltage drop across the 90 ohm resister but may work okay since +I1 needs something over +3V to turn the Input On. When motion is sensed the Input turns Off.

[starmanj]

Thanks Lee--

So am I right that both scenarios will have a current most of the time (since the sensors are closed normally)? That is, I1+ is directly connected to I1- inside the EZIO, and the EZIO is detecting current or no current? I suppose the 90 ohms will give the +12v a resistance and prevent a short circuit, but I'm a little concerned about the resistors and power supply under constant load. I guess that's what they are made for--?

 

Is there any way to test if the two motion connection wires are optically isolated from the other two power wires that connect to the alarm panel? Are most 4-wire motion detectors opto-isolated? Will bad things happen if they really aren't isolated?

[LeeG]

There is no issue with EZIO8SA Inputs being On versus Off. There should be no issue with the resister in the motion sensor and current draw. The opto-isolated inputs are looking for voltage not significant current flow. I assume the resistance allows the security panel to know something is connected by the expected resistance across the motion sensor connection. Something similar to an End Of Line resister on a security zone.

 

I have no experience with security motion sensors. If there is any doubt about the pair of wires being isolated from the DSC power going to the motion sensor that answer will have to come from the motion sensor company.

 

Confirm that the motion sensors are not being used functionally on both the security panel and the EZIO8SA. I have no idea the implications of connecting the motion sensing pair to the security panel and the EZIO8SA.

[Brian H]

The motion sensor may have a built in resistor so the panel can sense if there is a wiring problem. If the resistance is too low or high it may flag a problem zone on the panel.

 

Do you have any model numbers for the panel and motion sensors?

Not easy to find DSC data but I have helped someone with a ADT branded DSC PC1555 panel.

[TJF1960]

For a time I was using the digital inputs on a couple of EZI06i modules tied directly to door and window zones of my DSC panel. Lee suggestion of reversing the leads going to the digital inputs if some or all do not work do to polarity. I used this setup for about 6 months and it worked fine. I did not tie my motions into the EZI06i however because in my house the powerline would have been flooded with Insteon traffice due to the amount of times each motion sensor turns on and off as you move thru the room. Door and windows you typically only open and close maybe a couple of times a day but a motion...

 

The zone inputs on the DSC have a small trickle voltage on the + side of the zone which is currentl limited. The zone inputs use voltage from the DSC panel power supply so the voltage at each zone is not isolated however the panel is powered by a wallwort so it is isolated from the EZIxxx. As I recall I originally used a 1k dropping resistor in series with each zone to the EZI06i but later found the voltage at the zones was at a safe value for the EZI06 and later removed them. However don't take my word for it...experiment safely as your mileage may vary.

 

I later switched over to io_guy's DSCLink which is an awesome windows program that monitors every input and output of the DSC and translates it to a variable for use in programs. The link is here http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=4642

 

Tim

[Brian H]

You may find that 90 Ohms you read was being influenced by the trickle voltage mentioned.

If you measured it connected to the panel.

If the sensor was powered and you then disconnect just the signal wires. What is the resistance of the motion sensors output?

[starmanj]

Thanks for the help-- the DSC panel is model PC1832 installed 6 moths ago. Brian I think you are right; it's 90 ohms if tested directly on the panel, but only 40 ohms through the sensor if I remove the leads from the panel.

 

I was planning to leave the terminals on the DSC panel and tie into the EZIO in parallel. I am assuming this won't interfere with the DSC panel.

 

TJF1960 I am also worried about flooding from the motion sensors always triggering, but isn't the same true for the wireless Insteon motion sensor? So I am assuming the powerline network as well as ISY can handle the signal flood. I hope to find out.

 

My original idea was to use "smart lighting" by creating motion-triggered lighting at night. A "pass-through zone" where dim lighting comes on as you walk through a zone, and automatically turns off after a minute, using existing pre-wired motion sensors.

[TJF1960]

TJF1960 I am also worried about flooding from the motion sensors always triggering, but isn't the same true for the wireless Insteon motion sensor? So I am assuming the powerline network as well as ISY can handle the signal flood. I hope to find out.

The Insteon MS only sends a signal depending upon the time out unless in occupancy mode then I think it is every 10 seconds during detection (if I am wrong someone please correct me). I was worried about too much powerline flooding in my case (very active house), but give it a try and do let us know how it works out for you.

 

My original idea was to use "smart lighting" by creating motion-triggered lighting at night. A "pass-through zone" where dim lighting comes on as you walk through a zone, and automatically turns off after a minute, using existing pre-wired motion sensors.

That is similar to how I am using mine, we have been quite happy with the way it all works.

[LeeG]

starmanj

 

Do not connect the EZIO8SA GND and 12V to the -I1/+I1 Inputs if leaving the motion sensor connected to the security panel. The security panel is not expecting an outside power supply to feed into the Zone connections.

 

Try connecting the security panel connections to which the motion sensor is connected to -I1/+I1 as though they are providing an independent voltage to the opto-isolated input. Have no idea what that will do to the operation of the motion sensor function as far as the security panel is concerned. Also do not know if there will be enough voltage swing to operate the EZIO8SA Input.

[starmanj]

Hi Lee-

I don't get any voltage across the motion sensor relay connections, so I don't think it will trigger the EZIO across 1I- and 1I+. STRANGE thing is how I can get lower resistance when I uncouple the motion sensor leads from the alarm-- my old EE class taught me resistance always drops when you add a circuit in parallel. The DSC panel must do something active to the motion sensor relay circuit.

 

I guess I'll just try all scenarios and see what happens. I'll tell the alarm company to ignore alarms. Worst case I fry the DSC panel.

 

I must be the first person to try this on a "normally closed" motion sensor...

 

Starmanj

[LeeG]

I’ve connected many NO and NC dry contacts to various EZIOxx devices. The issue here is the security panel must be applying a potential to the motion sensor motion wires. Otherwise it cannot detect motion. If the motion sensor was being used standalone (not being shared as a functional motion sensor with the security panel) connection to an EZIOxx Input is pretty standard. The unknown is how to have the motion sensor functional as a motion sensor to both the security panel and an EZIOxx Input at the same time.

[TJF1960]

I don't get any voltage across the motion sensor relay connections, so I don't think it will trigger the EZIO across 1I- and 1I+

The relay is wired with the normally closed contacts (NC) which means under normal (de-energized state - no motion detected) the contacts are shunting the zone + to ground. Measure the voltage across the ms zone when someone is waving their arms in front of the motion sensor and you must see voltage. This voltage will be used to trigger the EZIOxx....provided there is enough current to drive both the zone electronics and the EZIOxx. In my case there was enough voltage to trigger the EZIO6i from my DSC 632 panel.

[LeeG]

TJF1960

 

Thanks for that data. I believe the opto-isolated Inputs are the same across the EZIOxx line.

 

Is the MS Zone connection a single input and a common ground or two connections specific to the MS Zone?

[Brian H]

The PC1832 Installation Manual shows two zones and a common. Like Z1 Com Z2; Z3 Com Z4 etc.

Also shows all the commons are tied together on the PCB. Including Aux Power - and Keyboard -

 

If the zones where wired with a 5600 Ohm End Of Line Resistor Detection. The Isolated EZIO Inputs may have triggered a Tamper or Zone Problems. Though I have no actual information on what would happen.

[TJF1960]

TJF1960

 

Thanks for that data. I believe the opto-isolated Inputs are the same across the EZIOxx line.

 

Is the MS Zone connection a single input and a common ground or two connections specific to the MS Zone?

Hi LeeG, sorry for the delay. Sounds like my panel and the OP's panel are similar per Brian's description. All zone grounds are common to power supply ground. All zone positives are current limited with I am assuming a pull up resistor for each zone.

I originally had used the end of line resistors (I believe 5.6k as Brian indicated) on all zones. My panel did produce enough current on each zone to operate the optocoupler inputs of the EZIOxx as well as provide for proper operation of the alarm panel itself. Even after removing all EOL resistors the panel and EZIO6i worked well together. I ended up removing the resistors just to tidy up the panel, as they were installed in the panel and therefore ineffective as were originally intended.

[LeeG]

Thank you both. Great information.

 

starmanj

 

Connect security panel Com to I1- and the specific Zone connection for the motion sensor to I1+. No connections to the EZIO8SA GND or +12v.

[starmanj]

You are both quite correct, I had someone walking in front of the sensor to read voltage originally but must have tested the wrong one. There is a 6 volt reading when the sensor is activated. Therefore LeeG's suggestion of tying the alarm panel in parallel directly to 1I+ and 1I- is the way to go.

 

Thanks, I am grateful for the wonderful assistance available on this forum!

Starmanj

[LeeG]

It was Tim that offered that solution. It is what he used with an EZIO6I which also has opto-isolated Inputs.

 

Let us know how it works once actually implemented.

[Brian H]

I also look forward to your report on how it works.

[starmanj]

Thanks for suggestion folks --HOWEVER when I tied my EZIO8SA in parallel, voltage drops from 6v to 2V, which does not trigger the EZIO (when I view the event viewer), and may not trigger the alarm panel but I'm not sure.

 

Is there anyway to get around this?

 

Starmanj

[starmanj]

Can I use the +12v source on the EZIO with a "pull-up" resistor I have heard about?

[LeeG]

The EZIO8SA 12v cannot be used with a pullup resister on Inputs 5 & 6. A 5v power supply can be powered from the 12V to feed +5v through a pullup resister to Inputs 5 & 6.

[starmanj]

I was thinking of boosting voltage across the Digital input #1. The analog inputs, 5 and 6, might be triggered by a 2V input, I will try that also.

Starmanj